Dan & Phil Part 50: Should we kiss now?

[LtrllySusan]

Isn't that exactly like the "Is this Dan's or Phil's hair" quiz he took in his quizzes vid?

[lilabet]

I really like it but it reminds me of the sugarscape interview (Dan or a flan, Phil or a 20 bill)

[SquishPhan]

It was a pretty stupid vid, but in the totally right way if that makes sense.

I really enjoyed it, made me .

Isn't that exactly like the "Is this Dan's or Phil's hair" quiz he took in his quizzes vid?

That is what it reminded me off as well.

[iero]

i found this hilarious!!
phil saying 'it looks similar to dans hair' followed 'there's little bits in there, it looks like an unwashed head' cracked me up lmaoo

[Whommel]

It was a pretty stupid vid, but in the totally right way if that makes sense.

I really enjoyed it, made me

Makes perfect sense, I feel the same way.

It was a lot of fun, loved the cringe photos and the reactions to them.

[jaej]

[offtopic]gender talk getting less and less related to d+p

Every time I look at , I can't help thinking that they would be interesting subjects for a case study on masculinity, which is actually what both the lad culture and gender stereotype discussions seem to be about. Neither being a man nor masculinity in a wider sense can be simplified into a single model of an "average" or a "stereotypical" man. There are different types of masculinities and they become meaningful in relation to each other (and to femininities) because there is a hierarchy between not only genders in general but also different ways of doing gender. What has been dubbed as "being a traditional man" in this discussion is essentially what in academic lingo is called "hegemonic masculinity", which is considered to be the ideal type of masculinity on top of the hierarchy. All the other types of masculinities exist and are defined in relation to this ideal.

Dan's and Phil's types of masculinities differ from each other, as noted several time in this thread, but are both farther away from the ideal hegemonic masculinity than eg. Joe's and Caspar's. At least Dan (possibly also Phil) is actively challenging the ideal by "breaking the stereotypes", which appears in stark contrast to Joe and Caspar, who just seem to use the lad culture's homoeroticism to strive towards the ideal by making fun of alternative masculinities.

I've been crafting this message for far too long and have already forgotten where I was going with all of this. Hopefully someone else can pick up from here.

(disclaimer: I am a sociology student and have had some lectures on this topic but am by no means an expert. Also, depression seems to have shut down most of my higher brain functions, including my analytical skills, so I can't really dive deep into serious topics right now.)

i'm also a sociology student when a not so great brain right now (hi!) but i wanted to comment on the part i've bolded. i've been reading a lot about how masculinity is different for middle class men, and imo the sort of lad culture is challenging gender stereotypes for these men but in different areas and in a less self aware way. it's very much something i see as connected to middle class young guys because lad culture lets men show a lot of emotion (always more typically allowed for middle class men) and not be pressured into traditional economic or familial masculine responsibilities (something they can afford to do), and allows friendships to replicate parts of female friendships that men arent typically allowed to have. i wouldnt even say its homoeroticism, aside from when it is clearly a thing for views - it just goes against notions of how men should interact with each other. basically i disagree with other people saying that the kind of masculinity that j+c etc represent is the ideal of masculinity for young men, but it is closer than d+p in some aspects[/offtopic]

[Philena]

Coming back from the dead to say I loved this video because it was basically just Phil trolling Dan by showing incredibly embarasing photos to someone he is obviously attracted to! Nicely done.

[Birdie]

The discussion moved on but I wanna answer this, so whatever:

Also I find it fucking hilarious that those people that are vehemently denying his labels are also the same people that tweet "cum down my throat danny" or "choke me with those thick thighs". Like okay, you have no fucking problem sexualizing Dan in your fantasies but as soon as someone labels him their "making him uncomfortable" like okay Stacy the double standards and as dia pointed out clear biphobia that people are exhibiting is honestly kind of sickening. If you don't know your sexuality good for you but don't automatically assume others feel the same way. Personally , I think Dan has figured his out and wouldn't fear labels as much as people think he would.

Okay, but you can not label Dan and accept he’s not straight at the same time. I agree that people need to stop using “Don’t label him” as an opportunity to say he’s straight or to silence any discussion revolving around Dan’s (non-straight) sexuality but whilst calling him straight is absolutely disregarding his very own words, so is calling him gay/bi/anything else. He has said he doesn’t like labels multiple times and he hasn't gone back on that statement yet. He has also made it pretty clear he’s attracted to men and women and that’s where we stand.

Like, I get your point, but labelling him even though he has said himself he does not like labels is kinda the same thing as using “Don’t label him” to call him straight (which is also a label though, lol). This has nothing to do with biphobia since it’s Dan himself who’s said he doesn’t like labels and doesn’t want to use one. That’s what he said and if we’re supposed to take his male attraction mentions seriously, we should also take it seriously when he says he doesn’t like labels and doesn’t want one, even if we may not like it. Like, I seriously don't see any difference between "I assume Dan is straight despite what he said" and "I assume Dan won't mind being labeled despite what he said".

Yeah, using “Don’t label him” to silence everyone talking about Dan’s sexuality is shitty. But labeling him and going “I assume he doesn’t mind labels after all, even though he's said otherwise multiple times, so I’ll call him bi” is also not okay and kind of really aggressive. Dan’s made it pretty clear he doesn’t like labels, he’s said so more than once. And by the way, a lot of people who have their sexuality figured out still don't use labels for different reasons and there's nothing wrong with that. Forcing labels on queer people isn't cool, really, and I don't like how everyone just accepts this. Like, don't assume he's straight even though he's made clear he's not. But also don't label him when he's made clear he doesn't like it. Is that hard?

(I also agree with everyone pointing out that Phil doesn't need to break any gender stereotypes if he's comfortable the way he is. The whole idea behind breaking gender roles is allowing everyone to dress and present the way they want to. Forcing yourself to wear nail polish as a man even though you don't want to might break gender roles, but it kind of misses the point of the movement. If Phil's happy and comfortable the way he is now and doesn't want to change anything, that's great.)

[fondsmiles]

phil is such a troll. but with the way he keeps making fun of himself, I can't be mad at him. thanks for that #qualitycontent mr. lester, you truly bring higher standards to youtube.

my favorite parts were when they discussed whether rat penisses would get this video demonitized and how that would be a first for phil, when anthony jumped up and walked around and dan slammed phil's laptop shut at the last picture, and the discussion of dan and phil possibly nibbling anthony's neck in his sleep. kinky. (phil slipped into his wide-eyed camera stare for a moment there, and then looked to dan for a clue on how to react to this- he's so unsure in these situations.)

it wasn't the most exciting video content wise, but i think it was funny enough and the editing and the jokes they made, made up for it.

also, look at phil pretty much only talking to and looking at anthony, because he doesn't need to do that with dan, because they're an entity. and dan typing in phil's password. and phil digging out really embarrassing pictures of dan but not so much of anthony. and him not telling dan what he's planned and feeling the strong need to announce that because it's such an uncommon occurrence. that's some cute shit right there.

[thephandommenace]

The reaction to

Dan's hair being chemically straightened

was too good
I was slightly bothered by the camera angle being a bit chin-full and as someone said they seemed slightly out of focus but it was a fun video. I've seen them dabble in this kind of format before but it's nice having Phil as the host and having him be a sneaky snek

And +1 to the masculinity & gender discussion

[lurker]

i don't think a phil video has ever made me laugh that much, i found it hilarious. mostly due to the "weird" editing -- that was so on point! the style reminded me a bit of pj's "crafting with my dad" which i love to bits (not saying phil copied it, just that i want them to collab again! phil, if you're lurking...). i also feel like it's safe to assume phil substantially edited the danandphilcrafts videos now?

bonus points for the theme song, anthony getting off his chair from laughing too much, dan's face after "this is a position i'm in often", phil trying to suppress a smile throughout the entire thing, and dan making serious eye contact in the end to convey how great this was.

could someone tell me what phil mumbled after saying that it might be one of them nibbling anthony's ear? i've replayed that like 10 times but still didn't catch it due to dan talking at the same time, oops.

[obscureDnPreference]

my favorite parts were when they discussed whether rat penisses would get this video demonitized and how that would be a first for phil, when anthony jumped up and walked around and dan slammed phil's laptop shut at the last picture, and the discussion of dan and phil possibly nibbling anthony's neck in his sleep. kinky. (phil slipped into his wide-eyed camera stare for a moment there, and then looked to dan for a clue on how to react to this- he's so unsure in these situations.)

Anthony's jumping up and Dan slamming the laptop closed was I replayed that bit several times.

[confusedpanda]

I'm wondering if the camera quality looks weird due to using anthony's camera and then not fixing the importing settings in the editing software or something. But other than that, the video was really funny! Though I am reminded of the time dan and Phil played guess the youtube with alfie.

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/4ygVDOffWLE[/YouTube] lol I still don't know how to link YouTube videos on here, welp

I love how phil was a troll about how this took ages to make and throughout the whole thing in general.

[obscureDnPreference]

Notice how much straighter/higher Phil was sitting during this? He was like "I'm in charge here, fellas."

[obscureDnPreference]

Notice how much straighter/higher Phil was sitting during this? He was like "I'm in charge here, fellas."

On second thought, it's probably because the other two were leaning in to see the pictures. Never mind me.

[liola]

Just a general +1 to Catallena just now. this is very well worded and feels true for me.

[offtopic]this isn't deppy, but it is gender stuff: I just watched superfruit's new music video and it is incredible, and shows kids expressing gender in the way they want to. also fantastic dancing. I stan these kids now and wanted to share since it kinda-ish applies to this discussion.

[/offtopic]

[offtopic]I was literally talking about them I love them so much and I love how they're embracing their past relationship and being unashamedly gay and showing it's okay to break gender roles![/offtopic]

Loved Phil's video, but i'm always here for Phil in any way #philgirl I love how despite Phil looking at Anthony the most (prob to make him more comfortable?) there was still that chemistry between deppy also loved how Phil felt it was totally fine to dig embarrassing pics of Dan!

I didn't quite get what Phil said but when he shows the rat's mouth and they all go with "it's Dan's flesh" didn't Phil make a comment about how he's seen some weird flesh

also loved how Anthony asked if they would be the one nibbling on his neck and they both went "probably". Does this go along with the male attractins mentions orrrr

[lurker]

Notice how much straighter/higher Phil was sitting during this? He was like "I'm in charge here, fellas."

#putphilincharge2k17 to save his spine

[sarmstr2]

Troll Phil is my favorite Phil.

Also that theme song...

[BSV]

I'm in love with the credits at the end!

[Vanderlyle]

this has been discussed before a few years ago, but - people never hate phil's videos, but are quick to critique dan's. is it bc dan's videos are consistently better so we hold him to a high standard? is it bc dan makes less of them? i feel like phil's videos have been heavily reliant on dan/ other people for a while. i love his personality, but it does begin to feel a bit the same - there isn't a lot of ingenuity these days (which is what people say about dan).

as people have said - the film quality wasn't great. i feel like dan would be crucified for that? idk
like, i thought that video was a cop out? so many youtubers have done the "zoom in and guess who it is" thing before. when praising it, we are talking about the chemistry between the people involved and not the actual #content itself.

just an observation.

i also didn't find the editing style that similar to DAPCrafts, i think you just have to do the occasional zoom when the camera is far away/ there are multiple people/ there is a particularly solid facial expression. i did love anthony's reaction to dan's photos - def the highlight.

[somethingsketchy]

I think the dynamic between the three worked really well unlike the dynamic in some other three-person collabs D&P have done. Phil seemed to be having the time of his life.

[offtopic]gender talk getting less and less related to d+p

Every time I look at , I can't help thinking that they would be interesting subjects for a case study on masculinity, which is actually what both the lad culture and gender stereotype discussions seem to be about. Neither being a man nor masculinity in a wider sense can be simplified into a single model of an "average" or a "stereotypical" man. There are different types of masculinities and they become meaningful in relation to each other (and to femininities) because there is a hierarchy between not only genders in general but also different ways of doing gender. What has been dubbed as "being a traditional man" in this discussion is essentially what in academic lingo is called "hegemonic masculinity", which is considered to be the ideal type of masculinity on top of the hierarchy. All the other types of masculinities exist and are defined in relation to this ideal.

Dan's and Phil's types of masculinities differ from each other, as noted several time in this thread, but are both farther away from the ideal hegemonic masculinity than eg. Joe's and Caspar's. At least Dan (possibly also Phil) is actively challenging the ideal by "breaking the stereotypes", which appears in stark contrast to Joe and Caspar, who just seem to use the lad culture's homoeroticism to strive towards the ideal by making fun of alternative masculinities.

I've been crafting this message for far too long and have already forgotten where I was going with all of this. Hopefully someone else can pick up from here.

(disclaimer: I am a sociology student and have had some lectures on this topic but am by no means an expert. Also, depression seems to have shut down most of my higher brain functions, including my analytical skills, so I can't really dive deep into serious topics right now.)

i'm also a sociology student when a not so great brain right now (hi!) but i wanted to comment on the part i've bolded. i've been reading a lot about how masculinity is different for middle class men, and imo the sort of lad culture is challenging gender stereotypes for these men but in different areas and in a less self aware way. it's very much something i see as connected to middle class young guys because lad culture lets men show a lot of emotion (always more typically allowed for middle class men) and not be pressured into traditional economic or familial masculine responsibilities (something they can afford to do), and allows friendships to replicate parts of female friendships that men arent typically allowed to have. i wouldnt even say its homoeroticism, aside from when it is clearly a thing for views - it just goes against notions of how men should interact with each other. basically i disagree with other people saying that the kind of masculinity that j+c etc represent is the ideal of masculinity for young men, but it is closer than d+p in some aspects[/offtopic]

Thank you so much for your addition, jaej! I'll admit that I don't know enough about the lad culture to argue for or against your comment, but what you wrote makes sense to me from what I know about masculinities in general.

[obscureDnPreference]

Phil in that jean jacket btw.

[Vanderlyle]

also - v important phil in denim jacket appreciation post

#work

[Catallena]

So we all agree this entire video was just Phil's plan to embarrass Dan by showing Anthony weird pictures right? :') Jealous!Phil rising.

I'm not the biggest fan of Phil's collabs (not counting Dan and Phil™ videos which barely count as collabs these days) and I was particularly fearing this one because I felt that with Dan and Anthony being closer than Anthony and Phil we were gonna be looking at another Louise situation with them talking over Phil. Thankfully that didn't happen, but I guess Phil already nipped that in the butt by making sure he was in control of the video by playing the part of quiz master. I guess that's kinda his go to recipe for a collab anyway (that he wants the control over the conversation) but it doesn't always work as well is it did here. Because honestly, the chemistry between them is what ended up making this video. It never felt fake or awkward, the joking an commentary between all three of them was very nice to watch. As far as the game goes.. well that was just a generic thing that everyone and their mom has played at least once and it's absolutely nothing exciting or special, but it served it's purpose I guess and it games like that are very AP brand. I enjoyed it for what it was, which was a pretty normal AmazingPhil collab but not as cringe or awkward as expected

'No rats were harmed in the making of this, but Dan's self esteem was'

[malday]

this has been discussed before a few years ago, but - people never hate phil's videos, but are quick to critique dan's. is it bc dan's videos are consistently better so we hold him to a high standard? is it bc dan makes less of them? i feel like phil's videos have been heavily reliant on dan/ other people for a while. i love his personality, but it does begin to feel a bit the same - there isn't a lot of ingenuity these days (which is what people say about dan).

as people have said - the film quality wasn't great. i feel like dan would be crucified for that? idk
like, i thought that video was a cop out? so many youtubers have done the "zoom in and guess who it is" thing before. when praising it, we are talking about the chemistry between the people involved and not the actual #content itself.

I think it's because Phil's slogan for his channel is "there's no integrity here".