Dan & Phil Part 56: Phanthony! at the Disco

[flarequake]

Their entire approach to playing the Sims is strange. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they've dragged the series out for 3 years. I don't think I've ever seen another YouTuber slowly bleed out a gaming series this way.

this is only further made worse by dan's comment on the last sim's vid where he says "maybe in 3 years dab can live in the fancy penthouse" or something along those lines. this is a probably a reach, but it gives some insight about how much longer they think they will occupy the platform and how they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. i feel like we're all gradually moving towards an AU where "big youtubers" like felix and jake paul fall from power with a declining sub count while dan and phil sit smug in their gaming chairs and put out yet another Google Feud video with some eye contact only for it to get over a million views. the sims series is going to be dragged out for atleast another few years so i guess our only option is to age with Dil.

Hehe, I'm here for this. I don't watch any other gamers, though I'm aware they generally play a game and move on, though Jacksepticeye did 100 videos of Happy Wheels and that game's not that good. I love the Sims and it's meant as a long-play game if you get really into it. People played generations of sim families, there's more room for Dil and sprogs yet, I was just glad they left aging him for at least another year. Seems a bit too soon especially with the kids being young.

[human]

Their entire approach to playing the Sims is strange. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they've dragged the series out for 3 years. I don't think I've ever seen another YouTuber slowly bleed out a gaming series this way.

this is only further made worse by dan's comment on the last sim's vid where he says "maybe in 3 years dab can live in the fancy penthouse" or something along those lines. this is a probably a reach, but it gives some insight about how much longer they think they will occupy the platform and how they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. i feel like we're all gradually moving towards an AU where "big youtubers" like felix and jake paul fall from power with a declining sub count while dan and phil sit smug in their gaming chairs and put out yet another Google Feud video with some eye contact only for it to get over a million views. the sims series is going to be dragged out for atleast another few years so i guess our only option is to age with Dil.

Puzzled about the negativity? Dil is their most popular series and I think it's a testament to the boys that the series has survived so long. Zalfie have tried to make a series of it twice but have failed because they consistently cheat and are impatient and don't play the game properly. I've always been really impressed with how well Deppy play the sims, focusing on growing their characters as individuals and having fun whilst fulfilling their basic needs without ever having cheated. I hope the series continues and we get to see generation evolutions and whatever else they might want to show us lol I love it and I think so do a majority of gaming channel subscribers.

Also, lol Tabitha Pancakes definitely is a pre-made basic game install sim, she wanders around my town all the time. Thus why I'm not invested her and don't really care about her. Dil, Dab and Dalien 4eva.

[AroboticPhil]

mandatory october tweets :

and something no one asked for :

(reminds me of his bday tweet to phil with the "the warmth your bring to our lives")

also, I really hope we get the clothes video tonight, I don't know if I'm hyping it up too much in my head but I'm excited anyway

edit :

halloween baking confirmed ? or their failure not to film it ? lol

[human]

"Our Phil"

[annabanana]

Phil shutting down the pumpkin carving dream.

At this point all I have left to hope for is gingerbread house decorating at Christmas!

[alch]

halloween baking confirmed ? or their failure not to film it ? lol

Sounds like a confirmation. Pretty sure failure just means their baking's going to go badly.

[coffeepenguin]

I'm back (yay?) with a very important contribution: is it just what's the tiny corner of the phandom that I'm familiar with like or is there waaay much less hype for a pinof this year than in the past? I've been wondering about that (and about the reasins for that if it's true) since August actually

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

[Ablissa]

I'm back (yay?) with a very important contribution: is it just what's the tiny corner of the phandom that I'm familiar with like or is there waaay much less hype for a pinof this year than in the past? I've been wondering about that (and about the reasins for that if it's true) since August actually

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse if a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

I'm not sure about there being less hype for PINOF, but if there is, I have a theory about that.
In previous years (well, maybe aside from 2016), D&P have been far more reserved with their audience. PINOF was the one time of the year they were guaranteed to do something ridiculous, unexpected or cute in terms of phan, so people hyped it up beyond measure (and were sometimes disappointed). Now, we've had a whole year of them doing ridiculous and cute things in all sorts of videos, so we get a little slice of PINOF every now and again, instead of waiting a whole year for it.

Last year, the hype was real. People always seem to think that dnp will make some big announcement during PINOF, and since they've started opening up a little, there was a lot of pressure for it to happen. Now it feels like their audience is slowly getting used to things that would have made them all collectively faint just one year ago, and thus - less hype.

Honestly though, just wait till November and watch people count down the days.

[flarequake]

Interesting point about Pinof. I've seen a few hyped Tumblr posts, but not loads and now I think of it, last year and the year before there were quite a few here and there even months in advance.

Aww, Phil and sharp knives It's a great idea, but not if he'd only end up cutting himself and bleeding. I hope their pessimism about baking is at least half just for show, though. The brownie graveyeard, pumpkin cookies and spooky cupcakes were all great especially all decorated. I guess their first Christmas cookies were a bit pale and most of the meringues were flat and burnt, but they're not all bad.

[LtrllySusan]

So here we are after another two months, and both Dan and Phil are loudly announcing the month (half jk)

I have the inexplicable urge to bake the pumpkin cookies after recently making the brownies (they were amazing!). Pretty sure that I can't find molasses here though.. Any baking geniuses around who can tell me if the cookies will be terrible if I substitute for some other syrup? <-- this smiley exists twice with different names btw

[jesp]

<-- this smiley exists twice with different names btw

Not any more.

[autumnhearth]

I for one am hyped for pinof, as it's my first one while in the fandom. Several of the people I chat with are too, and have been for months. But I'm amused by posts on Tumblr that pinof was like only a month away... over a month ago. Math people.

Ooo I want to smell the failure! I do think their dismissal is to get us riled up. Perhaps that's an unhealthy assumption for me to have, but I think it fits. Ahh Dan and his hyperbole. And "our Phil".

Re: The Sims Series. I only started watching it in Dec or Jan, and marathoned it all (twice because the husband wanted to join in) so I'm not tired of it, though most of the episodes this year I found lacking something. They just didn't have the excitement of the proposal, the wedding and the honeymoon. Yes, even the latest renovation and Dil giving birth weren't that exciting to me. I loved this last episode, and yes that might be due in part to the adrenaline created by seeing them in those shirts, but also the city was exciting.

I would actually be very up for a one off or short series of them creating Sims of themselves, decorating a penthouse and exploring the city. But not letting it go any longer than a few episodes, so that they don't have to get into any relationship stuff. A trilogy perhaps. Or maybe a livestream.

I find I no longer have an opinion on that week in March. What I am excited for is this clothing vid. To quote a certain someone eight years ago "i think october is going to be good :]".

[alittledizzy]

Their entire approach to playing the Sims is strange. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they've dragged the series out for 3 years. I don't think I've ever seen another YouTuber slowly bleed out a gaming series this way. I really do wish they'd do that long livestream and let Dil die in some freak cloning accident or something. The gameplay has gotten really, really stale by this point, for me anyways.

The only way the Sims gameplay seems strange to me is that Dan and Phil are so opposed to series play in general - but Dil being the exception to the rule doesn't bother me at all. They're generally not my favorite videos, but actually the last couple have been pretty good. The actual most recent one in particular - it just felt warm and nice. I appreciate the longevity of the series even when I don't personally enjoy the videos as much, though. It's good for their channel to have a backbone like that. Dan and Phil's audience isn't a normal gaming channel audience; we like regularity, we like pattern, we like things we can feel like Dan and Phil are emotionally invested in. Even when they might seem bored playing Sims sometimes, I definitely think that the attachment to Dil is not entirely contrived.

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

That's gonna be the perpetual argument people have until/unless they come out. Anything cute, anything flirty, anything relaxed will be read one way or the other; some people (like meee) will just see it as a wonderful thing that they're more comfortable, and others (anyone who doesn't think they're together) will see it as baiting. Definitely dead-horse-discourse, but you can't really make it through fandom/a forum/life without enduring some of that once in a while.

In previous years (well, maybe aside from 2016), D&P have been far more reserved with their audience. PINOF was the one time of the year they were guaranteed to do something ridiculous, unexpected or cute in terms of phan, so people hyped it up beyond measure (and were sometimes disappointed). Now, we've had a whole year of them doing ridiculous and cute things in all sorts of videos, so we get a little slice of PINOF every now and again, instead of waiting a whole year for it.

Yeah, the post-baking universe was still new and jaw-dropping this time last year; we were just at the tip of the ice berg and people were holding their breath to see what pinof would be like. We're accustomed to the new normal this year. I actually think hype for Halloween baking is super strong, and that might be overshadowing pinof a bit - but as soon as November hits it'll definitely be all about pinof.

(For some reason I had it in my head that last year's pinof didn't do as well? But wow no I just went and looked, and it has over five million views, it did just fine.)

[vincentian]

Their entire approach to playing the Sims is strange. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they've dragged the series out for 3 years. I don't think I've ever seen another YouTuber slowly bleed out a gaming series this way.

this is only further made worse by dan's comment on the last sim's vid where he says "maybe in 3 years dab can live in the fancy penthouse" or something along those lines. this is a probably a reach, but it gives some insight about how much longer they think they will occupy the platform and how they don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. i feel like we're all gradually moving towards an AU where "big youtubers" like felix and jake paul fall from power with a declining sub count while dan and phil sit smug in their gaming chairs and put out yet another Google Feud video with some eye contact only for it to get over a million views. the sims series is going to be dragged out for atleast another few years so i guess our only option is to age with Dil.

Even though I wouldn't want to come across negative, I kind of share the saltiness of this post hehe. The bolded part is exactly how I see it in the future, not that it's a bad thing.

Btw I found the new Sims video incredibly cute, but can't help but think they tried for it to come out like that, as it's also a spon. Professional manufacturers of cuteness, these boys (disclaimer, I believe that a large part of it is natural etc. etc.).

Regarding the gaming merch, I think it's nice they put out t-shirts for a different body type/different cut. It's unfortunate their first gaming merch line is associated with the Dil series, but the items look alright imo. I remember someone once wished for socks, let's hope they come up with something new for Christmas. (Not that I'm a likely customer in any case.)

This is old, but one thing that kind of irked me in latest Phil liveshow, at 42:52 he said "go lap it up" while promoting their latest gaming videos, and then immediately reacted to it as another ~weird~ thing he said. Choose to consider it a total slip-up and how he thinks we consume their content (not that it's far from reality).

[drearyquery]

Regarding merch:

One thing I used to think was that all their stuff was intentionally focused on an "other" that doesn't relate too much to them. So focus on "Japan" or school supplies or the sims. Something with just d+p would focus on their YouTube chemistry and relationship (not something they used to like). But now,,, it seems like they acknowledge their together branding so much (our phil?) and understand that it's a lot of their appeal so I don't get why they won't make some minimilist dan and phil stuff.

[sonicgreen]

So here we are after another two months, and both Dan and Phil are loudly announcing the month (half jk)

I have the inexplicable urge to bake the pumpkin cookies after recently making the brownies (they were amazing!). Pretty sure that I can't find molasses here though.. Any baking geniuses around who can tell me if the cookies will be terrible if I substitute for some other syrup? <-- this smiley exists twice with different names btw

Ha! I made the cookies back when the video came out and idk if it was just my baking, but they weren't great. its actually a shit ton of mollasses which i think i ended up just halfing the amount and pushed the brown sugar if i remember correctly? The cookies were good after a few bites, but very dense. Brought them to a party and one polite soul ate most of them while my friends said, "you tried". PRO TIP: the dough is very sticky and one of my flaws was how much flour i piled on to roll them out, this made them much tougher i think.

Good Luck!

[LtrllySusan]

So here we are after another two months, and both Dan and Phil are loudly announcing the month (half jk)

I have the inexplicable urge to bake the pumpkin cookies after recently making the brownies (they were amazing!). Pretty sure that I can't find molasses here though.. Any baking geniuses around who can tell me if the cookies will be terrible if I substitute for some other syrup? <-- this smiley exists twice with different names btw

Ha! I made the cookies back when the video came out and idk if it was just my baking, but they weren't great. its actually a shit ton of mollasses which i think i ended up just halfing the amount and pushed the brown sugar if i remember correctly? The cookies were good after a few bites, but very dense. Brought them to a party and one polite soul ate most of them while my friends said, "you tried". PRO TIP: the dough is very sticky and one of my flaws was how much flour i piled on to roll them out, this made them much tougher i think.

Good Luck!

Did you make an account just to help me with my baking? Aww, I feel honored
Might bake something else instead then.

T -4h till clothes video? I expect sassy catwalks and fond Dan compliments

[fancybum]

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

I don't know if this is exactly the phandom reaction you were expecting but I don't mind being predictable and I need to kill my lunch break. And standard disclaimer when fanservice is involved: I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative lol let's see how it goes.

So just as a point of comparison, I want to bring Jenna and Julien into the conversation. Confirmed couple, in videos/podcasts they're affectionate, open, joke about their relationship, kiss and are otherwise physically affectionate with each other on camera all of the time. Is that considered fanservice? I get that people like to live vicariously through other people's relationships (or just enjoy watching that kind of close dynamic or whatever)- so does the judgement of fanservice increase with the degree of affection displayed? Or the physicality of it?

Like in one recent vid (maybe the last one? Idk and I'm on my phone, can't be bothered to check), Julien leaned over and kissed Jenna's temple like it was the most natural thing to do. Because to him it is. So is it fanservice to have kept it in the video? Is it not because it was so clearly a natural action and there was no reason to actively cut it out? Does them being a confirmed couple make moments like that "ok" when it's not for D&P? Or does it come down to perceived intent, like a judgement of how natural something comes across and Dan/Phil being so self-aware(self-conscious) of their actions and words around each other make a nipple-poke request Intentional in a way that Julien casually kissing Jenna is not? Or is all of it fanservice, no matter who it's coming from and is all of it inherently a bad thing to be wary or suspicious of?

Again I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I'm trying to understand the objection, because "shameless fanservice" definitely frames it as a negative thing. Like is Tom filming himself kissing Charlie "shameless" (I don't know if you watch J&J, so just getting another example in) fanservice? Or is okay for confirmed couples to be as touchy as they want because their actions, affections, and touching, sexual or not, are occurring safely within a defined relational context. They're allowed to kiss each other and jokingly poke each other's nipples (loool) (but literally Julien has touched Jenna's chest on camera and it's nbd). Are those moments all equally shameless and in the name of fanservice? (Ok and I'm still way behind on Last Week bc I'm garbage but I'm 94% sure Tom and Charlie have kissed on camera).

And shipbaiting is kind of a hilarious concept to me at this point. D&P have been together for almost a decade; they vacation together, they... there's no point even listing it all. They do everything together, their lives are joined. If I found out they peed together I would just shrug and nod. 'Yep, makes sense.' Just like.. what is there left to bait. It's so funny that a silly little nipple-poke could be considered any kind of shipbaiting maneuver at this point, when it exists alongside literally everything else. Is it even at all sexual?

Just to keep bringing in more unrelated people, I'm sure there's footage somewhere of Mamrie asking someone to poke her nip. Let's say it was her and Grace in a vid. Would that be shameless fanservice and/or shipbaiting? Or would it be totally fine, just two straight friends joking around with each other. Like yes, context matters (ew pewdiepie has ruined this phrase), but I'm bothered by the different standard D&P seem to be held to because they're not as clearly defined as people like Tom/Jenna/etc. Without certain definitions they aren't allowed the same freedom of movement/expression that others are- they're looked at with a certain kind of suspicion as to their motives or sincerity bc those things aren't as perceivably self-justified through their 'confirmed' statuses (of sexualities/relationships). It never sits right w me because I don't fully understand the perspective it's coming from.

I asked however long ago for people who consider things fanservice or shipbaiting to explain how D&P are supposed to act to avoid that descriptor (whether it's being used negatively or neutrally) and literally nobody bit, so I still don't get it. The question is still open...

(Again: phone. So sorry if I a word anywhere)

[SneakyLizard]

So here we are after another two months, and both Dan and Phil are loudly announcing the month (half jk)

I have the inexplicable urge to bake the pumpkin cookies after recently making the brownies (they were amazing!). Pretty sure that I can't find molasses here though.. Any baking geniuses around who can tell me if the cookies will be terrible if I substitute for some other syrup? <-- this smiley exists twice with different names btw

Ha! I made the cookies back when the video came out and idk if it was just my baking, but they weren't great. its actually a shit ton of mollasses which i think i ended up just halfing the amount and pushed the brown sugar if i remember correctly? The cookies were good after a few bites, but very dense. Brought them to a party and one polite soul ate most of them while my friends said, "you tried". PRO TIP: the dough is very sticky and one of my flaws was how much flour i piled on to roll them out, this made them much tougher i think.

Good Luck!

Did you make an account just to help me with my baking? Aww, I feel honored
Might bake something else instead then.

T -4h till clothes video? I expect sassy catwalks and fond Dan compliments

Hi guys, American baker here.
Molasses is not as sweet as sugar, slightly acidic and has quite a bit of water content. It seriously affects the texture if the cookies (makes them softer and chewier) and adds that punchy deep flavor and golden color you want in spice cookies. I wouldn't swap out sugar or half the molasses, it does contribute to the finished product. You can look for light molasses if the flavor is too intense (probs on Amazon, I would be surprised to see it in a shop outside the US) OR as I've seen suggested on the web, maybe try golden syrup! I can't vouch for that personally but it's an interesting thought.

[SneakyLizard]

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

I don't know if this is exactly the phandom reaction you were expecting but I don't mind being predictable and I need to kill my lunch break. And standard disclaimer when fanservice is involved: I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative lol let's see how it goes.

So just as a point of comparison, I want to bring Jenna and Julien into the conversation. Confirmed couple, in videos/podcasts they're affectionate, open, joke about their relationship, kiss and are otherwise physically affectionate with each other on camera all of the time. Is that considered fanservice? I get that people like to live vicariously through other people's relationships (or just enjoy watching that kind of close dynamic or whatever)- so does the judgement of fanservice increase with the degree of affection displayed? Or the physicality of it?

Like in one recent vid (maybe the last one? Idk and I'm on my phone, can't be bothered to check), Julien leaned over and kissed Jenna's temple like it was the most natural thing to do. Because to him it is. So is it fanservice to have kept it in the video? Is it not because it was so clearly a natural action and there was no reason to actively cut it out? Does them being a confirmed couple make moments like that "ok" when it's not for D&P? Or does it come down to perceived intent, like a judgement of how natural something comes across and Dan/Phil being so self-aware(self-conscious) of their actions and words around each other make a nipple-poke request Intentional in a way that Julien casually kissing Jenna is not? Or is all of it fanservice, no matter who it's coming from and is all of it inherently a bad thing to be wary or suspicious of?

Again I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I'm trying to understand the objection, because "shameless fanservice" definitely frames it as a negative thing. Like is Tom filming himself kissing Charlie "shameless" (I don't know if you watch J&J, so just getting another example in) fanservice? Or is okay for confirmed couples to be as touchy as they want because their actions, affections, and touching, sexual or not, are occurring safely within a defined relational context. They're allowed to kiss each other and jokingly poke each other's nipples (loool) (but literally Julien has touched Jenna's chest on camera and it's nbd). Are those moments all equally shameless and in the name of fanservice? (Ok and I'm still way behind on Last Week bc I'm garbage but I'm 94% sure Tom and Charlie have kissed on camera).

And shipbaiting is kind of a hilarious concept to me at this point. D&P have been together for almost a decade; they vacation together, they... there's no point even listing it all. They do everything together, their lives are joined. If I found out they peed together I would just shrug and nod. 'Yep, makes sense.' Just like.. what is there left to bait. It's so funny that a silly little nipple-poke could be considered any kind of shipbaiting maneuver at this point, when it exists alongside literally everything else. Is it even at all sexual?

Just to keep bringing in more unrelated people, I'm sure there's footage somewhere of Mamrie asking someone to poke her nip. Let's say it was her and Grace in a vid. Would that be shameless fanservice and/or shipbaiting? Or would it be totally fine, just two straight friends joking around with each other. Like yes, context matters (ew pewdiepie has ruined this phrase), but I'm bothered by the different standard D&P seem to be held to because they're not as clearly defined as people like Tom/Jenna/etc. Without certain definitions they aren't allowed the same freedom of movement/expression that others are- they're looked at with a certain kind of suspicion as to their motives or sincerity bc those things aren't as perceivably self-justified through their 'confirmed' statuses (of sexualities/relationships). It never sits right w me because I don't fully understand the perspective it's coming from.

I asked however long ago for people who consider things fanservice or shipbaiting to explain how D&P are supposed to act to avoid that descriptor (whether it's being used negatively or neutrally) and literally nobody bit, so I still don't get it. The question is still open...

(Again: phone. So sorry if I a word anywhere)

I wish we had some kind of like or +1 system, I just want to express a strong "agree" and thank you for the clear way you outlined the issue.

Edited b/c autocorrect

[alittledizzy]

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

I don't know if this is exactly the phandom reaction you were expecting but I don't mind being predictable and I need to kill my lunch break. And standard disclaimer when fanservice is involved: I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative lol let's see how it goes.

So just as a point of comparison, I want to bring Jenna and Julien into the conversation. Confirmed couple, in videos/podcasts they're affectionate, open, joke about their relationship, kiss and are otherwise physically affectionate with each other on camera all of the time. Is that considered fanservice? I get that people like to live vicariously through other people's relationships (or just enjoy watching that kind of close dynamic or whatever)- so does the judgement of fanservice increase with the degree of affection displayed? Or the physicality of it?

Like in one recent vid (maybe the last one? Idk and I'm on my phone, can't be bothered to check), Julien leaned over and kissed Jenna's temple like it was the most natural thing to do. Because to him it is. So is it fanservice to have kept it in the video? Is it not because it was so clearly a natural action and there was no reason to actively cut it out? Does them being a confirmed couple make moments like that "ok" when it's not for D&P? Or does it come down to perceived intent, like a judgement of how natural something comes across and Dan/Phil being so self-aware(self-conscious) of their actions and words around each other make a nipple-poke request Intentional in a way that Julien casually kissing Jenna is not? Or is all of it fanservice, no matter who it's coming from and is all of it inherently a bad thing to be wary or suspicious of?

Again I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I'm trying to understand the objection, because "shameless fanservice" definitely frames it as a negative thing. Like is Tom filming himself kissing Charlie "shameless" (I don't know if you watch J&J, so just getting another example in) fanservice? Or is okay for confirmed couples to be as touchy as they want because their actions, affections, and touching, sexual or not, are occurring safely within a defined relational context. They're allowed to kiss each other and jokingly poke each other's nipples (loool) (but literally Julien has touched Jenna's chest on camera and it's nbd). Are those moments all equally shameless and in the name of fanservice? (Ok and I'm still way behind on Last Week bc I'm garbage but I'm 94% sure Tom and Charlie have kissed on camera).

And shipbaiting is kind of a hilarious concept to me at this point. D&P have been together for almost a decade; they vacation together, they... there's no point even listing it all. They do everything together, their lives are joined. If I found out they peed together I would just shrug and nod. 'Yep, makes sense.' Just like.. what is there left to bait. It's so funny that a silly little nipple-poke could be considered any kind of shipbaiting maneuver at this point, when it exists alongside literally everything else. Is it even at all sexual?

Just to keep bringing in more unrelated people, I'm sure there's footage somewhere of Mamrie asking someone to poke her nip. Let's say it was her and Grace in a vid. Would that be shameless fanservice and/or shipbaiting? Or would it be totally fine, just two straight friends joking around with each other. Like yes, context matters (ew pewdiepie has ruined this phrase), but I'm bothered by the different standard D&P seem to be held to because they're not as clearly defined as people like Tom/Jenna/etc. Without certain definitions they aren't allowed the same freedom of movement/expression that others are- they're looked at with a certain kind of suspicion as to their motives or sincerity bc those things aren't as perceivably self-justified through their 'confirmed' statuses (of sexualities/relationships). It never sits right w me because I don't fully understand the perspective it's coming from.

I asked however long ago for people who consider things fanservice or shipbaiting to explain how D&P are supposed to act to avoid that descriptor (whether it's being used negatively or neutrally) and literally nobody bit, so I still don't get it. The question is still open...

(Again: phone. So sorry if I a word anywhere)

Fully second all of that, and with the addition that I think sexuality has something to do with it as well. Straight couples, confirmed or not, are definitely not scrutinized as much for any kind of teasing/baiting. In the period when Zoe and Alfie were flirtatious but before their relationship was outed I don't remember any negatively slanted speculation at all. Even if two people who are straight bait the fuck out of the are-they-aren't-they we're just conditioned to not really care either way. Grace and Chester are another good example of that, they legit didn't actually confirm a relationship status for years - not until after they'd been living together a while. And no one doubted they were together, no one got angry at their reluctance to highlight relationship status.

[twix]

So here we are after another two months, and both Dan and Phil are loudly announcing the month (half jk)

I have the inexplicable urge to bake the pumpkin cookies after recently making the brownies (they were amazing!). Pretty sure that I can't find molasses here though.. Any baking geniuses around who can tell me if the cookies will be terrible if I substitute for some other syrup? <-- this smiley exists twice with different names btw

Ha! I made the cookies back when the video came out and idk if it was just my baking, but they weren't great. its actually a shit ton of mollasses which i think i ended up just halfing the amount and pushed the brown sugar if i remember correctly? The cookies were good after a few bites, but very dense. Brought them to a party and one polite soul ate most of them while my friends said, "you tried". PRO TIP: the dough is very sticky and one of my flaws was how much flour i piled on to roll them out, this made them much tougher i think.

Good Luck!

Did you make an account just to help me with my baking? Aww, I feel honored
Might bake something else instead then.

T -4h till clothes video? I expect sassy catwalks and fond Dan compliments

Hi guys, American baker here.
Molasses is not as sweet as sugar, slightly acidic and has quite a bit of water content. It seriously affects the texture if the cookies (makes them softer and chewier) and adds that punchy deep flavor and golden color you want in spice cookies. I wouldn't swap out sugar or half the molasses, it does contribute to the finished product. You can look for light molasses if the flavor is too intense (probs on Amazon, I would be surprised to see it in a shop outside the US) OR as I've seen suggested on the web, maybe try golden syrup! I can't vouch for that personally but it's an interesting thought.

when i do molasses substitutions, i usually go for a high-quality maple syrup because it adds flavor and has a similar water content.

[flarequake]

Damn, I’m curious about the difference between molasses, golden syrup and sugar now, my brain started short-circuiting after thinking “they’re all made from sugar... what do they do to them?” First thing Wikipedia says is molasses are also known as black treacle, which I think the guys said in the video. We have a sticky old tin of treacle that’s black as Dan’s soul, but I didn’t think we had molasses in the UK (maybe it’s just the name that’s American, I first heard of it in the American diary-novel Daddy Long-Legs, which incidentally would make a really good nickname for Phil ). I guess there’s a reasonable alternative anyway.

Ramble over. Good post, fancybum I think the only thing the guys could do to avoid being accused of shipbaiting is to do nothing. Best I can think of, anyway. Maybe that’s why nobody replied before, there isn’t much to suggest

[coffeepenguin]

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

That's gonna be the perpetual argument people have until/unless they come out. Anything cute, anything flirty, anything relaxed will be read one way or the other; some people (like meee) will just see it as a wonderful thing that they're more comfortable, and others (anyone who doesn't think they're together) will see it as baiting. Definitely dead-horse-discourse, but you can't really make it through fandom/a forum/life without enduring some of that once in a while.

I feel like I haven't really thought it through (as always) when I posted this nor did I formulate well enough I'll just have to elaborate further, I'm afraid, because the nipple thing does bother me a bit, as ridiculous as it is, and now I'm wondering if it just means that I have issues or what. I also want it on the record that I do believe (most of the time) that Dan and Phil are together and I don't think they actually engage in shipbaiting. They do make fanservicy videos, as in "you asked for it" / "give the people what they want" / "AmazingPhil, more like AmazingPhanservice", but not really anything shipping related.

also, a controversial opinion nobody asked for: I didn't like the nipple poking thing, like, at all, not to bring back that poor dead horse of a discourse, but if I was looking for an example of shameless fanservice bordering on shipbaiting, that would definitely be one (cue the phandom reaction). Good thing I'm not looking for one

I don't know if this is exactly the phandom reaction you were expecting but I don't mind being predictable and I need to kill my lunch break. And standard disclaimer when fanservice is involved: I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative lol let's see how it goes.

So just as a point of comparison, I want to bring Jenna and Julien into the conversation. Confirmed couple, in videos/podcasts they're affectionate, open, joke about their relationship, kiss and are otherwise physically affectionate with each other on camera all of the time. Is that considered fanservice? I get that people like to live vicariously through other people's relationships (or just enjoy watching that kind of close dynamic or whatever)- so does the judgement of fanservice increase with the degree of affection displayed? Or the physicality of it?

Like in one recent vid (maybe the last one? Idk and I'm on my phone, can't be bothered to check), Julien leaned over and kissed Jenna's temple like it was the most natural thing to do. Because to him it is. So is it fanservice to have kept it in the video? Is it not because it was so clearly a natural action and there was no reason to actively cut it out? Does them being a confirmed couple make moments like that "ok" when it's not for D&P? Or does it come down to perceived intent, like a judgement of how natural something comes across and Dan/Phil being so self-aware(self-conscious) of their actions and words around each other make a nipple-poke request Intentional in a way that Julien casually kissing Jenna is not? Or is all of it fanservice, no matter who it's coming from and is all of it inherently a bad thing to be wary or suspicious of?

Again I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but I'm trying to understand the objection, because "shameless fanservice" definitely frames it as a negative thing. Like is Tom filming himself kissing Charlie "shameless" (I don't know if you watch J&J, so just getting another example in) fanservice? Or is okay for confirmed couples to be as touchy as they want because their actions, affections, and touching, sexual or not, are occurring safely within a defined relational context. They're allowed to kiss each other and jokingly poke each other's nipples (loool) (but literally Julien has touched Jenna's chest on camera and it's nbd). Are those moments all equally shameless and in the name of fanservice? (Ok and I'm still way behind on Last Week bc I'm garbage but I'm 94% sure Tom and Charlie have kissed on camera).

And shipbaiting is kind of a hilarious concept to me at this point. D&P have been together for almost a decade; they vacation together, they... there's no point even listing it all. They do everything together, their lives are joined. If I found out they peed together I would just shrug and nod. 'Yep, makes sense.' Just like.. what is there left to bait. It's so funny that a silly little nipple-poke could be considered any kind of shipbaiting maneuver at this point, when it exists alongside literally everything else. Is it even at all sexual?

Just to keep bringing in more unrelated people, I'm sure there's footage somewhere of Mamrie asking someone to poke her nip. Let's say it was her and Grace in a vid. Would that be shameless fanservice and/or shipbaiting? Or would it be totally fine, just two straight friends joking around with each other. Like yes, context matters (ew pewdiepie has ruined this phrase), but I'm bothered by the different standard D&P seem to be held to because they're not as clearly defined as people like Tom/Jenna/etc. Without certain definitions they aren't allowed the same freedom of movement/expression that others are- they're looked at with a certain kind of suspicion as to their motives or sincerity bc those things aren't as perceivably self-justified through their 'confirmed' statuses (of sexualities/relationships). It never sits right w me because I don't fully understand the perspective it's coming from.

I asked however long ago for people who consider things fanservice or shipbaiting to explain how D&P are supposed to act to avoid that descriptor (whether it's being used negatively or neutrally) and literally nobody bit, so I still don't get it. The question is still open...

(Again: phone. So sorry if I a word anywhere)

First of all, I shouldn't have used "shameless", it's too strong, I'll hide behind the "non native speaker" defense. Second of all, yes, I do think that ultimately it comes down to the perceived intent. I'm subscribed to Jenna's channel, so these examples you gave speak to me, but I'm even more thankful to you for bringing up Tom. What I would compare deppy's nipple poke is when Tom, Eddie and Elliott make those types of jokes with each other in Last Week, you know, "playing with titties" etc. For me, personally, it comes across as borderline homophobic and I'm uncomfortable with it. I know Tom isn't a homophobe, but if I hadn't and that had been the first thing I saw him do, I wouldn't have been inclined to continue watching him. Because usually, when men do it, it is a gay joke. I know straight men irl who do that without the intent to be homophobic, too, I know that ultimately it's the patriarchy and their uncomfortablyness (is that a word?) with it that's responsible, doesn't make it less weird to me. With Dan and Phil, however, and all their history, it's even more weird, because it's not framed as a mocking of "bro" culture (it could've been), but they're not a confirmed couple either, as Tom and Charlie or Jenna and Julian, for whom it would be a socially acceptable kind of pda. I like how you compared it to other couples kissing on video. As for comparing it to women, you know full well that - unfortunately - there are double standards in play and even two women kissing may be very well viewed at as "how cute, they're such good friends", whereas any affectionate behavior between two men is stigmatized (but, like, if a woman, even a long-time friend, was suddenly asking me to poke her nipple, I'd consider that an invitation... I guess that's why I'm still single)

eta: also, I do agree that same sex couples are more heavily scrutinized, I ultimately agree with all of the points that fancybum and dizzy are making, I don't really know why I feel the urge to defend a point of view that I don't really agree with (accusing deppy of shipbaiting), maybe it's the lawyer in me, but I do honestly feel weird about the damn nipple thing in the Sims video, I'm still wondering at my reaction and I was also surprised at how many people praised it here. But mostly I'm hoping for Phil's video tonight

[flarequake]

Ohh, that’s interesting, coffeepenguin. I guess it’s down to the nature of their relationship, not a confirmed couple or straight laddish bros like Tom and friends. That’s why I didn’t think anything of it, cos whatever Dan and Phil’s relationship is, it’s very close and they’re not two straight bros. It’s missing that layer of laddish piss-taking (homophobia, the patriarchy etc), it’s just them. If it had been one of them with another friend, the relationship and dynamic would be different again and it would stand out in a different way.