coffeepenguin wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:48 pm
With all due respect, first of all, this is a public forum where many different people participate in the discussion and sometimes without reading the whole of it, which is ok, this is the nature of a forum, so you can't really tell people what types of arguments and comparisons they can and cannot make, as long as they stay civil and abide by the rules.
kuensukki made an argument (and continued to do so, and was supported by others) that people (especially white people) in the phandom don't care as much about race as they do about mental health and gay rights. I don't particularly agree with the way the sexism/misogyny comparison was then brought up, as well as with the relevance of that comparison, for the reasons I expressed in my previous post, but it's still worth being discussed, like every other topic. As for the great "what minority have suffered the most abuse in the history of the universe" olympics, I'll take a wild guess and say we'll never find out because most probably they've been completely wiped out from any kind of history as a result.
Also, weren't you the one who were taking about how the feelings of the people who are hurt should matter the most? I'm sorry, I honestly am, I know everyone wants to be done with this conversation, and I do respect you a lot, but I am very, very much bothered by your comment. Unlike you, I literally have, like, one friend in the phandom (probably, for a good reason) and no followers whatsoever, so my opinion doesn't interest anyone and I should just continue to lurk like I've been doing for the last couple of months, I'll most likely start regretting this post already in a couple of hours, but why can't we make this comparison, really? The argument is not "Dan and Phil make sexist comments, so they should be given a pass when they socialize privately with a racist without publicly condemning him", the argument is "phandom doesn't talk about racism much, but it doesn't talk about misogyny much either, and when it does, everyone is uncomfortable, so if we want to have these conversations, maybe we should look at the reasons behind this and it's a broader issue than just
everybody's racist". Sorry again, I'll shut up now.
hey, i'm really sorry that my comment bothered you but let me try to clarify a couple things.
1. the point that
Light02 made, at least initially and at least how i understood it, wasn't 'phandom doesn't talk about racism much, but it doesn't talk about misogyny much either, and when it does, everyone is uncomfortable ... maybe we should look at the reasons behind this and it's a broader issue.' if that's the argument, fair play. phandom doesn't talk about misogyny much. that is a true statement. i personally try to talk about it whenever it becomes relevant. i've brought it up on my blog, which is my primary phandom outlet, on numerous occasions, whether it was in advance of louise's latest video, the concept of which was poised as being 'cis men laugh at their ignorance about female biology,' or in relation to dan's past rape jokes, with respect to which on numerous occasions i've written about wishing he would directly address them and apologize and outwardly prove he's grown as a person. that's a more radical stance than i'm sure most of the fandom would take, instead arguing that his privating those videos or unlisting them is enough to show on its own that he doesn't believe in that humor anymore. i disagree with that argument on a number of levels. but my point in my last post was that while these are all valid conversations to have about dan and phil as public figures and as people, i simply don't understand why they should be brought up now to the expense of this other serious conversation happening. if you want to expand the discussion to ALL of the problematic shit that dnp do or have done in their entire history on youtube that fandom lets slide and refuses to hold dnp to account for, then by all means, go for it, i obvi can't and shouldn't and would never wish to actually dictate what an entire forum talks about. but to me there definitely is a difference in scale between dnp's friendship with a man who uses racist and anti-semitic language, and their use of the word 'hoe.' it just rubbed me the wrong way to try and suggest that these other issues (which
are serious in their own right, but on a different scale, whether bc they're in the past or bc they involve words that aren't on the level of hate speech or whatever else) should be brought up in a way that's meant to equate them in weight at this particular moment to felix's actions and dnp's association with him.
2. to that end, this whole oppression olympics thing also makes me incredibly uncomfortable. i totally agree with you that it's pointless to try and compare and argue about the levels of discrimination that certain subgroups have faced. but
Light02 was DIRECTLY comparing and equating the severity of two slurs ('hoe' and the n word, and now 'stupid') and using that as a premise to argue about phandom's hypocrisy. i tried to respond with further analysis directly comparing the weight of those two words and the associated weight of using hate speech versus using discriminatory language meant to police women's sexuality. AGAIN, both are bad, but one is worse. a worse WORD mind you, and a more serious offense, than using the word 'hoe' about a sim in a non-slut shaming context. that's all i was trying to say.
again, not sure why are how either of these points have upset you but i'm sorry if it came across like i was trying to be controlling of the conversation. i'm not. i just perceived this whole line of argumentation as an attempt at distraction from the main point, and an attempt at asserting that somehow people responses to this felix situation aren't valid bc they didnt react the same way in the past to words like 'hoe' and 'stupid' and whatever else. imo trying to supersede this discussion with one about misogyny and ableism both detracts from the current discussion as well as the legitimate conversations that could be had about ppl's tacit acceptance of casual misogyny and ableism as well. hope this makes sense. the last thing i would want to do is invalidate anyone who is hurt, and im sorry if it came across that way.
even tho for me the game was not really creepy at all but that's probably just me because I play a lot of horror games. 
to kuensukki's post. 
~let in a little sunshine~ 
lol
So idk dear, are you?
