Dan & Phil Part 6: Choke Me Dad(dy)

Cora · Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:14 am

lilMango! What an exciting honor! Something something mango juice. I'm sorry.

Fun fact: In Spanish, mango is pronounced "mawn-goh"

coffee pig · Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:35 am

This is a a subject that I brought up in the 'Other YouTubers' thread which I think would be more appropriate to talk about here. It's something that has been bothering me for a while, but I feel like we need to discuss the questionable ethics of Dan and Phil cashing in on the ambiguous nature of their relationship. I saw this interesting comment on a rhymingwithoranges(which btw, if you don't watch him you really should,) video about British Gay YouTubers, which sums up some of my feelings about the subject:

It's hard to tell a Youtuber's sexuality sometimes when they use click bait, fake relationships 4 views or if they are genuinely gay/bisexual/ pan etc.
Dan and Phil are the obvious original example. Their gimmick was hinting at bisexuality since day 1--as was the fantastic foursome, and we know Chris is bisexual. If Dan and Phil came out as bisexual would their gimmick for views then be ethical? Or would the years of lying overshadow the representation? Or, if they came out as 100% straight would all the shippers be livid about their new 2015 brand as a unit? I would not want to be backed into THAT corner. There is no winning... but they are making bank off the ambiguity, so I don't feel too much sympathy.

Tyler Oakley is obviously a shameless opportunist, and Troye's admitted that he got on the Tyler bandwagon to gain views/ recognition. Dan did the same with Phil. I don't think it's really about sexuality that unites everyone, but their United thirst.

It got me thinking that one of the reasons I still stan Dan and Phil is because I assume they are bisexual, or at least part of the LGBT community. If they weren't, I would find some of their past homophobic comments, not to mention the shameless manipulation of their audience to sell their brand, pretty abhorrent. I just want to know what other people's opinions are on this.

gnostic · Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:59 am

It IS quite common for youtubers to play up/create ships for popularity.

I used to consider Dan and Phil's actions fanservice, but by now, if they are not actually in relationship and Dan is not actually not-straight, I would place Dan at least in queerbaiting category. They can say they were joking / giving tongue in cheek fanservice all they want. Technically they are correct but they know damn well how their audience interprets it, and especially since their audience is mostly young impressionable teens eager for that #relatable feel, manipulation is easy.

Of course, i also do not really believe Phan is real, so you can imagine i have quite a cynical outlook to the whole thing

daphenaxa · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:07 am

honestly I don't think Dan and Phil have used their relationship as clickbait or gimmicked bisexuality since day 1. But phan became such a overwhelmingly big thing in their fandom that they had to acknowledge it

annetamiau · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:10 am

In my opinion, Dan and Phil ARE part of the LGBT+ community. With some mental gimnastics, one could even believe they have never been together, but straight... nah, I don't think that's possible. However, and regardless of the nature of their relationship, they are indeed making a lot of money out of the ambiguity and out of 'Phan, the brand', because that's what hooked at least a good portion of their audience (me, for example xD). That's why, to my mind, they are no different than other mainstream youtubers, often considered (for some reason) to be more 'money hungry' and less honest with their audience than Dan and Phil. I enjoy watching D and P's videos, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they are baiting and making money in the same way many big youtubers are.

By the way: how do you pronounce 'mango' in English? Cause in Spanish (at least in Spain), people say 'man-go'. I thought 'mawn-goh' would be closer to the English way of saying it. (I don't think there are any words in Spanish that end in 'h' sound).

kuensukki · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:15 am

Re:bedhead91

This is something I ask myself everyday. But than I think about it and I realize that they are not obligated to tell us their sexuality or relationship status. They have made it clear that "phan is not real". Phan is the brand couple name and I never throught that was real. Now Dan and Phil, on the other hand, I can't imagine them not having some sort of romantic fling or relationship. Even if we turn a blind eye to all the evidence they still seem to have a bond closer than all else. The only other possibility I could think of is that they were together and decided to be friends. Even then there is underlying sexual tension and feelings that can remain so the theory is more likely improbable.

Also Deppy, when my goggles are off act like platonic bros. Compare Tyler and Troyes interactions (they did a freakin Boyfriend Tag) to Dan and Phil's ironic "friendship" always displayed in their videos. They dont imply much anymore we assume and use Occam razor. Oh they haven't been in a relationship, they live together and they are older and have money to get their own place #married. I ship them as hard as the titanic but I have to admit to myself that sometimes my perceptions can be skewed at how emotionally invested I am at the idea of them being a couple.

In all sense represent an envious love story with angst, sexuality crisis, emotional dependency, and above all a strongly bonded friendship. We all crave to find that person that is our soulmate and fight me but I believe that they are each others. Be it friends or lovers (I hope) it is their decision to make at the end of the day. I think we all want to know "phan IZ real!!" because we want them to stay together forever and relationships (though I argue friendships) have a longevity factor that is enticing.

Another thing to keep in mind is that now with all their career moves and joint businesses it wouldn't be wise to come out. If they eventually feel the need to share than I will be overjoyed but if they don't and I have some inkling that they are still close (in love

) than I will be satisfied, whatever the bond.

corn flakes · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:17 am

I'm going to give you my opinion regarding deppy but bear in mind that as much as I like them I'm more a casual viewer.

I like their videos because they are funny to me and also love that bond they have, with bond I intend more that special kind of frienship they have and while I could see them as a cute couple I don't really care about it. Regarding their sexuality I'm not really invested, from the few things I saw they COULD be bi ...

So I will see them in a bad light if they admited their friendship was fake and I will side eye them if both were straight.I will not consider baiting the beggining of their story because for me it was long time ago, we don't have all the info and frankly it seems that at the time it was a caos, then came the time in which they implied they were straight...now if you want I could see it as baiting some times.
They are cashing on Phan but you could argue that they are cashing on their friendship, they never hold hands or cuddled or sent something to imply they were in a relationship...they always go out of their way so that people don't take a comment/a moment as proof of a relatioship, even lie about some suspicious circumstances. What I could see them doing is profiting from their friendship while at the same time gainig from people that think they are in a relationship.

About their sexuality I will not like if both of them were 100% straight because of the recent comments, especially from Dan, but in any other case I don't see a comment about a cute boy as cashing it as I don't see it for a heterosexual boy commenting about a hot girl.

I don't think I made my point clear

DryCereal · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:22 am

annetamiau wrote:By the way: how do you pronounce 'mango' in English? Cause in Spanish (at least in Spain), people say 'man-go'. I thought 'mawn-goh' would be closer to the English way of saying it. (I don't think there are any words in Spanish that end in 'h' sound).

Man-go. As Phil @ 0:22, Dan @ 0:23

edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

SquishPhan · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:25 am

bluebox-away wrote:Participation video is up, seems a bit late with the first show being this weekend already! Looks like they filmed it in Florida?

Cute video, and yeah for the mango licking.

I don’t agree with this. For one I don’t think that Dan got with Phil just for the views/ recognition at all. If that was the case then I don’t think they would have been friends for so long.
Second their branding has always been about their friendship, and we know that is genuine. They are each other’s best friend. They have only ever branded themselves as friends, and I don’t see how that is clickbait.
Yes lots of us think there is more to them than just friendship, but just because they make youtube videos doesn’t mean that they have to tell us everything. Really their sexualities and relationship status is none of our business, even if I would really like to know, I recognize that.

DryCereal · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:28 am

SquishPhan wrote:their branding has always been about their friendship, and we know that is genuine. They are each other’s best friend. They have only ever branded themselves as friends, and I don’t see how that is clickbait.
Yes lots of us think there is more to them than just friendship, but just because they make youtube videos doesn’t mean that they have to tell us everything. Really their sexualities and relationship status is none of our business, even if I would really like to know, I recognize that.

kuensukki · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:30 am

IckleMissMayhem wrote:
edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

coffee pig · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:33 am

Sorry for randomly dumping all this negativity in the thread. I also don't agree with all the points this person made, just a few of them.
Even though I don't believe that they have been ambiguous from the start necessarily to cash in, it's not hard to imagine that this is what it looks like to most people who don't know their history. Their complete radio silence on the topic of their sexualities seems smart to me, but also slightly cowardly. This way they can have the best of both worlds, getting the attention of the fangirls without actually causing any kind of controversy.
Also I really want dried mangoes now, dried mangoes are the shit.

annetamiau · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:35 am

IckleMissMayhem wrote:
annetamiau wrote:By the way: how do you pronounce 'mango' in English? Cause in Spanish (at least in Spain), people say 'man-go'. I thought 'mawn-goh' would be closer to the English way of saying it. (I don't think there are any words in Spanish that end in 'h' sound).
Man-go. As Phil @ 0:22, Dan @ 0:23

edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

I actually feel stupid, cause I watched the video. It's 11.35 in the morning but I'm half asleep.

Thanks!!

Btw don't you think Dan and Phil look older in that video?

DryCereal · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:43 am

annetamiau wrote:Btw don't you think Dan and Phil look older in that video?

don't worry about it, we all have those kind of brainfarts moments!

I don't think so. Possibly tired/jittery/normal lighting/no makeup at a stretch, but not older.

jhamba · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:44 am

kuensukki wrote:
IckleMissMayhem wrote:
edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

You dont know how much li'l mango makes me crave mangos. Everytime I see her avatar I think of the middle east and India- they have the best mango trees! Also when you're in University you can't afford to eat healthy so I'm left with my cravings. Phil made me want to buy the dry mango, those are BOMB.

annetamiau · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:45 am

bedhead91 wrote:Sorry for randomly dumping all this negativity in the thread. I also don't agree with all the points this person made, just a few of them.
Even though I don't believe that they have been ambiguous from the start necessarily to cash in, it's not hard to imagine that this is what it looks like to most people who don't know their history. Their complete radio silence on the topic of their sexualities seems smart to me, but also slightly cowardly. This way they can have the best of both worlds, getting the attention of the fangirls without actually causing any kind of controversy.
Also I really want dried mangoes now, dried mangoes are the shit.

100% this. (I agree their brand is their friendship, though).

And also, I don't think Dan contacted Phil just to get popular himself, otherwise they wouldn't have such a strong bond (regardless of their relationship, it's true they seem very very close).

Ickle: I didn't mean older in a bad way

kusunoki masashige · Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:56 am

Kathrynxjane wrote:Ugh makes me really want to go watch it again now. I wonder how much they have changed. Also there is new tour merch. I wonder how different . I hope they put it on the shop like they did with the UK one.

I bet it's gonna be the dolls. And I'm sure they'll put it on the shop.

But the Dan and Phil brand, at least in my mind, is "adorably close biffles D&P who are shipped by their viewers", them belonging to the LGBT community isn't part of their brand. They did start to push the whole D&P-combo-thing in late 2014 (gaming channel), and I'm sure that was a conscious decision to reel the viewers in in preparation for the bour. So you might call it shipbaiting? Idk, it's all a grey area and I don't really know how to feel about it…is it shameless manipulation or is it giving the viewers what they want? It's not like they play up their closeness on camera, they do actually spend all of their time with each other and are close, in whatever way that is.

edit: shit i'm slow…basically yes to all what SquishPhan said.

wtfamidoinghere · Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:03 am

I agree that if Dan turned out to be straight, he would have been queerbaiting at this point. But even if he was, we'd never know. He could get a girlfriend now and it wouldn't mean he's straight.

When it comes to shipbaiting i'm strongly rolling my eyes tbh. I think i've ranted about this in the other place, but one moment people talk about how hard they try to not make it look like they are sharing beds, share clothes etc. just generally trying to make it clear that they are friends. If they make comments that suggest they aren't together they get accused of "no homoing".
And then a few pages later people talk about shipbaiting? What else should they do to show they are platonic? Never again make a video together? Because even when they make videos they hardly touch. When one of them puts his hand on the other ones shoulder, there are endless comments about how it's fanservice or even baiting.
There must be a fine line between no homo and shipbaiting apparently.

The only thing that could be seen as baiting is everything from 2009/10. After that they tried everything to look platonic. And i'm not saying they aren't profiting from phan, i'm just saying it's more like accepting the inevitable than them actively trying to reinforce the ship.

daphenaxa · Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:18 am

wtfamidoinghere wrote:I agree that if Dan turned out to be straight, he would have been queerbaiting at this point. But even if he was, we'd never know. He could get a girlfriend now and it wouldn't mean he's straight.

When it comes to shipbaiting i'm strongly rolling my eyes tbh. I think i've ranted about this in the other place, but one moment people talk about how hard they try to not make it look like they are sharing beds, share clothes etc. just generally trying to make it clear that they are friends. If they make comments that suggest they aren't together they get accused of "no homoing".
And then a few pages later people talk about shipbaiting? What else should they do to show they are platonic? Never again make a video together? Because even when they make videos they hardly touch. When one of them puts his hand on the other ones shoulder, there are endless comments about how it's fanservice or even baiting.
There must be a fine line between no homo and shipbaiting apparently.

The only thing that could be seen as baiting is everything from 2009/10. After that they tried everything to look platonic. And i'm not saying they aren't profiting from phan, i'm just saying it's more like accepting the inevitable than them actively trying to reinforce the ship.

gnostic · Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:22 am

Dammit this is the discussion i wanted and i have so much to say why do i have a client meeting right now ugh

swofro · Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:42 am

jhamba wrote:
kuensukki wrote:
IckleMissMayhem wrote:
edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

You dont know how much li'l mango makes me crave mangos. Everytime I see her avatar I think of the middle east and India- they have the best mango trees! Also when you're in University you can't afford to eat healthy so I'm left with my cravings. Phil made me want to buy the dry mango, those are BOMB.

My grandparents have a mango orchard. unfortunately, I don't get holidays during the mango season, so I can never go . I do get mangoes sent to me, but it's not the same

Lobster · Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:08 am

wtfamidoinghere wrote:I agree that if Dan turned out to be straight, he would have been queerbaiting at this point. But even if he was, we'd never know. He could get a girlfriend now and it wouldn't mean he's straight.

When it comes to shipbaiting i'm strongly rolling my eyes tbh. I think i've ranted about this in the other place, but one moment people talk about how hard they try to not make it look like they are sharing beds, share clothes etc. just generally trying to make it clear that they are friends. If they make comments that suggest they aren't together they get accused of "no homoing".
And then a few pages later people talk about shipbaiting? What else should they do to show they are platonic? Never again make a video together? Because even when they make videos they hardly touch. When one of them puts his hand on the other ones shoulder, there are endless comments about how it's fanservice or even baiting.
There must be a fine line between no homo and shipbaiting apparently.

The only thing that could be seen as baiting is everything from 2009/10. After that they tried everything to look platonic. And i'm not saying they aren't profiting from phan, i'm just saying it's more like accepting the inevitable than them actively trying to reinforce the ship.

All of this

Also, while I understand the comparison to Troye and Tyler, I don't think its really fair. Troyler was something that Troye and Tyler actively encouraged and quite clearly exploited; making a boyfriend tag, kissing onstage. Dan and Phil, on the other hand, have never encouraged people to ship them. They've acknowledged Phan, yes, and made some jokes about it, but they have never actively endorsed it. In fact, they have often done the exact opposite. So, imo, Troye and Tyler are guilty of shipbaiting, Dan and Phil are not.

sweetmm · Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:13 am

bedhead91 wrote:This is a a subject that I brought up in the 'Other YouTubers' thread which I think would be more appropriate to talk about here. It's something that has been bothering me for a while, but I feel like we need to discuss the questionable ethics of Dan and Phil cashing in on the ambiguous nature of their relationship.

Their brand had always been bff and they had never "behave like a couple" outwardly; in fact they try their best not to touch each other (unless awkwardly). As a benchmark for me, youtubers that do "queer bait" would be Shane Dawson & Joey Graceffa back to before both of them came out of the closet (hence they were still officially declaring themselves straight).

Ultimately in case, it is not how they project themselves in their videos, but it is more of how the viewers perceived them. At least that's how I see it

Diyes_Celine · Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:20 am

swofro wrote:
jhamba wrote:
kuensukki wrote:
IckleMissMayhem wrote:
edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

You dont know how much li'l mango makes me crave mangos. Everytime I see her avatar I think of the middle east and India- they have the best mango trees! Also when you're in University you can't afford to eat healthy so I'm left with my cravings. Phil made me want to buy the dry mango, those are BOMB.

My grandparents have a mango orchard. unfortunately, I don't get holidays during the mango season, so I can never go . I do get mangoes sent to me, but it's not the same

I don't know guys, I like mango as in the fresh fruit from the tree because I have a tree at the back of my grandma's house, but dried mango is weird. I don't like my fruits being dried because I love all the juice in it.

OT: (Premise: I really believe are inside the glass closet.)
I just saw that Sam Tsui just came out and married his long time partner. I thought we was gay and out all these years. And he was able to hide the long time partner? That for me says a lot about YT community. **Looks at Dan and Phil

.** If D&P are together, does this mean there are more Youtubers who know the real score than we suspected?

DryCereal · Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:30 am

Diyes_Celine wrote:
swofro wrote:
jhamba wrote:
kuensukki wrote:
IckleMissMayhem wrote:
edit: someone bring me some fresh mango plz.

You dont know how much li'l mango makes me crave mangos. Everytime I see her avatar I think of the middle east and India- they have the best mango trees! Also when you're in University you can't afford to eat healthy so I'm left with my cravings. Phil made me want to buy the dry mango, those are BOMB.

My grandparents have a mango orchard. unfortunately, I don't get holidays during the mango season, so I can never go . I do get mangoes sent to me, but it's not the same

I don't know guys, I like mango as in the fresh fruit from the tree because I have a tree at the back of my grandma's house, but dried mango is weird. I don't like my fruits being dried because I love all the juice in it.

not trying to make you crave more for mango but it's mango season here in my country. Green mangoes literally fall outside my bedroom windows and ripe mangoes are sold everywhere.