Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Ataraxia25 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:11 pm

honeybee wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:06 pm
I'm returning here after months to ask this very specific question because I cannot work this out and it's bothering me lol.
How was this picture at the gallery taken??? Or am I just being stupid and it's obvious?
Does it take your picture and then he's taken a picture of the picture or?
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(Edit: I tried putting this in the hide tags but I cannot get it to work sorry! :/)
tbh i wondered a lot about that too and i feel like phil took the picture and maybe dan was on the other side of the ball ?
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by huphilpuffs » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:18 pm

I don't have anything particularly interesting to add. That video was just <i>so</i> casually queer and I'm living for it. :prideheart: Also the game was pretty funny and I loved seeing what they came up with and how the other reacted.

(Oh and I got art hoe phannie which is ... surprisingly accurate.)
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by whatdoiknow » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:19 pm

That video was really funny. Phil is out there and killing it as usual lately. Hope he had a great time hanging out with his husband (he can skip the fedora and tight pants though). I also loved how proud Dan was of Phil's answer at the end, he was genuinely so happy about it.

And lmao I died at 8:14 Dan: "Is that even clickbait? That's just, like, full The Sun, right there." hahaha he's not wrong. Literally a headline D. Wattpad would write

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by honeybee » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:26 pm

Ataraxia25 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:11 pm
honeybee wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:06 pm
I'm returning here after months to ask this very specific question because I cannot work this out and it's bothering me lol.
How was this picture at the gallery taken??? Or am I just being stupid and it's obvious?
Does it take your picture and then he's taken a picture of the picture or?
Image

(Edit: I tried putting this in the hide tags but I cannot get it to work sorry! :/)
tbh i wondered a lot about that too and i feel like phil took the picture and maybe dan was on the other side of the ball ?
OOoooh it's not a reflection, it's looking throught it, yep it was just me being stupid :lol: Thank you for freeing me from my torment

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by knq » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:28 pm

honeybee wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:06 pm
I'm returning here after months to ask this very specific question because I cannot work this out and it's bothering me lol.
How was this picture at the gallery taken??? Or am I just being stupid and it's obvious?
Does it take your picture and then he's taken a picture of the picture or?
Image

(Edit: I tried putting this in the hide tags but I cannot get it to work sorry! :/)

I don’t know how it’s set up but it seems to be part of the art. No one with a photo of that particular piece is holding a camera in it if you look on the Instagram page http://www.instagram.com/explore/locati ... nk-centre/

Edit: Oops, y’all right it’s a looking glass, not a reflection. I’ll juat add this link about the art then! https://www.instagram.com/p/BpDKatwi1Z1/
Last edited by knq on Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by honeybee » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:31 pm

knq wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:28 pm
honeybee wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:06 pm
I'm returning here after months to ask this very specific question because I cannot work this out and it's bothering me lol.
How was this picture at the gallery taken??? Or am I just being stupid and it's obvious?
Does it take your picture and then he's taken a picture of the picture or?
Image

(Edit: I tried putting this in the hide tags but I cannot get it to work sorry! :/)

I don’t know how it’s set up but it seems to be part of the art. No one with a photo of that particular piece is holding a camera in it if you look on the Instagram page http://www.instagram.com/explore/locati ... nk-centre/
Ah that clears it up, thanks!

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by ratlad » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:40 pm

at first i got drama phannie and i was Not Here for that, so i took it again wih my second choices and got demon phannie. good. correct.
phil saying "my husband" ? love that for him.
phil talking about testicles? not quite there yet, personally, but i'm glad he's being honest.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by ame » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:43 pm

ok i gotta say, i saw people reblog gifs of the new video so i went to youtube wondering why i didnt see it on my subs but lo and behold, it was right there. i just didnt see it BECAUSE the thumbnail was of a well endowned man that was so obviously a clickbait...anyways, found the video through dans tweet in the end.

the video was a nice quick one. i really do love it when they film board games, but i would also love it if they played with more people...as a team. i wanna see that competitiveness + teamwork that they always talk about. i love the little digs they do ( like dan mentioning theyre good at lying ) and im living for phil being this unstopable force in the good year of 2018.
alittledizzy wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:59 pm
lurker wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm
also i want to make a formal complaint to phil for making me imagine him in tight speedos and a fedora.
oh no. there's gonna be phanart, isn't there.
👀🤔🙂

anyways, i got demon phannie on the quiz thingy and im not surprised.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by alittledizzy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:48 pm

ratlad wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:40 pm
phil talking about testicles? not quite there yet, personally, but i'm glad he's being honest.
Oh god you summed up my whole stance on Phil and what he chooses to express his uh... interest in. I'm so happy for him. Can't relate, but you live your tight sweatpants admiring truth, Phil.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by annabanana » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:12 pm

phil's laugh at 3:48 is killing me. <3

i got the "i am not paid enough phannie". i've only been in the phandom for ~2 years but with the amount of times i have rewatched some of their videos it probably adds up to many more :lol: so i'll take it.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by obsessivelymoody » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:45 pm

That video really is the epitome of short and sweet. Please give me Causally Queer Phil any day. 2018 has been particularly wild in that department too, and I fucking love it. I snorted way too hard at "cramf" moment starting at 7:55 sausage in the evening kind of guy my ass. Also great to see them really be each others biggest fans. Dan's full body laugh jumped the hell out, and he was far from being short of compliments for Phil :')

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by bestfriendsclub » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:52 pm

I was enjoying the gaming video until Dan threw a pencil at Phil's eye. Now I'm upset. That was not okay, you should never hurt your friends on purpose. I know they say it's just a joke, but laughing at someone when you hurt them doesn't make the pain go away. And you don't need to be violent to be funny.
Abuse victims are afraid to speak up or defend themselves because the abuser says it wasn't that bad, you're overreacting, can't you take a joke, it's okay for me to hurt you because I love you, you deserved it, etc.
And they think everyone else will say that too. And they're showing any abuse victims in the audience that it is okay to hurt your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if it wasn't that bad, it wasn't nice either. I'm going to speak up every time I see violence going unnoticed because I want everyone I can possibly reach to know that they can speak up too, and they don't need to tolerate it.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Amiaw » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:24 am

bestfriendsclub wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:52 pm
I was enjoying the gaming video until Dan threw a pencil at Phil's eye. Now I'm upset. That was not okay, you should never hurt your friends on purpose. I know they say it's just a joke, but laughing at someone when you hurt them doesn't make the pain go away. And you don't need to be violent to be funny.
Abuse victims are afraid to speak up or defend themselves because the abuser says it wasn't that bad, you're overreacting, can't you take a joke, it's okay for me to hurt you because I love you, you deserved it, etc.
And they think everyone else will say that too. And they're showing any abuse victims in the audience that it is okay to hurt your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if it wasn't that bad, it wasn't nice either. I'm going to speak up every time I see violence going unnoticed because I want everyone I can possibly reach to know that they can speak up too, and they don't need to tolerate it.
I’m going to assume your intentions are good with this post and reply in a hopefully respectful way. I don’t know you so I don’t want to make judgements either but as an abuse survivor I don’t find the comparison of a friend throwing a pencil at someone as actual abuse is helpful or correct. I agree that violence is wrong but dealing with abuse hasn’t affected my ability to recognize it and I am perfectly able to see 2 friends be playful on screen and see that they are just being playful and not trying to harm each other. I don’t want to go any deeper into this because I don’t want to start any arguments or hurt feelings but please be aware that posts like this that you think are helpful can actual be insulting.
Last edited by Amiaw on Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Ablissa » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:30 am

bestfriendsclub wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:52 pm
I was enjoying the gaming video until Dan threw a pencil at Phil's eye. Now I'm upset. That was not okay, you should never hurt your friends on purpose. I know they say it's just a joke, but laughing at someone when you hurt them doesn't make the pain go away. And you don't need to be violent to be funny.
Abuse victims are afraid to speak up or defend themselves because the abuser says it wasn't that bad, you're overreacting, can't you take a joke, it's okay for me to hurt you because I love you, you deserved it, etc.
And they think everyone else will say that too. And they're showing any abuse victims in the audience that it is okay to hurt your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if it wasn't that bad, it wasn't nice either. I'm going to speak up every time I see violence going unnoticed because I want everyone I can possibly reach to know that they can speak up too, and they don't need to tolerate it.
I don't want to discredit your opinion or your feelings, if this affected you negatively then that is 100% valid, and I definitely agree about abuse victims. I just... I'm not sure what brought it on?

I mean, it was clearly a joke between two people who are very close. I think that assuming they are condoning abuse (or that Dan is abusive?) based on something like this is a really long shot. As in, extremely long, so long that it's out of realm of possibility.

Everyone has their own impressions of course, but I think that we can't start assuming every little thing is bad. They playfully hit each other etc. in a bunch of videos, it's just their type of humor, they are clearly super comfortable with each other. Everything points to that. There is nothing wrong with joking around as long as they both consent to it, which obviously, they do.
I don't know, I'm worried I'm being offensive or something but honestly, if you are completely serious, I feel like you are being too severe on Dan and Phil.
Last edited by Ablissa on Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by fieldoflovers » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:31 am

I loved the video, it was so sweet and fun. One of my fave parts was Dan saying "Phil didn't even wanna consider giving me the point there okay sure that's the mood he's in today." I loved how cute it was because so often they give each other the points, even if they think they've been funnier and idk they know each other so well, i'm soft.

also at 6:20 dan mentions countdown which i think is a reference to '8 out of 10 cats does countdown' aka a great yt rabbit hole to go down under (seriously last time i had a depression spiral it was to those videos on youtube, highly recommend) and I just imagine them watching it together and taking the competition quite seriously. I know phil loves game shows and I hope one day he can have his own.

Personal tangent about their anniversary under the cut:
Today is also my grandparent's 49th anniversary and its such a weird thing to think about people being together for so long. friends or more, they clearly plan on being in their lives for that long and longer and that makes me really happy to see, its a rare thing and I hope they hold onto that. I've been thinking a lot about who will be in their life and in mine after that many years and I hope in 40 more years they're still happy and together <3 <3 <3
And @bestfriendsclub ur feelings are valid and I'm sorry that the moment upset you. I doubt this is any consolation but I think the audience gets that dnp have been best friends for quite a few years and are at a comfort level with each other where they can talk to each other about boundaries. Dan likes to play around with violence(the truth bombs video where he almost stabbed himself in the eye and phil was obviously concerned). I think if something ever went too far, they'd have that convo with each other and cut it out of the video.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by itasca00 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:39 am

I was wondering if we would be getting a gaming video sometime soon, and I'm glad we did! Here are my highlights:
  • The first thing I noticed was that Dan has the top button of his shirt undone, something I can't recall ever seeing him do before. He’s got his neck out for the lads, and I’m not complaining.
  • The second thing I noticed was that Dan’s nails are painted again. :tu: I’m guessing this gaming video was filmed on the same day as the last one based on the nails and how similar their hair looks in the two videos.
  • [0:32] Ah, sarcasm.
    D: And we know a lot about lying to get people to click on things.
    P: Totally.
  • [2:11] Phil’s first thought when it comes to “ultra-tight swimming pants”:
    P: It’s like those people that buy really tight sweatpants. They know what they’re doin’. They know what they’re doin’.
    D: Who are those people, and where have you seen this?
    P: I’ve seen it.
    D: Where?
    P: On the street.
    D: We know what Phil’s Instagram Explore filter is.
  • [2:49] Dan thinks a good clickbait title for an article about “ultra-tight swimming pants” is “No more saggy ass? Say-what?!” I particularly appreciated Dan’s sassy head bob when saying, “Say-what?!” at [2:52] and [3:03].
  • [3:09] Last gaming video, it was meat. Now, Phil’s got nuts on the brain. :shock:
    P: “Sexy speedos advertising male nuts.” *laughs*
    D: *laughs*
    P: I mean, that’s what it is. They’re ultra-tight. That’s what you can see.
    D: You’re not advertising the nuts.
    P: I mean, you’re not? What if you’ve got particularly...big nuts?
  • [4:49] Dan rolls his eyes. It seems almost involuntary, and I found that amusing.
  • [5:16] I can 100% picture a younger Dan doing this.
    (Prompt: Ogre odour perfume)
    D: They are saying, “What smell can bewitch women?”
    P: Ooh.
    D: Right, ‘cause if you’re a lonely dude in the middle of the night--
    P: Yeah.
    D: --on the internet, you’re gonna click on that in desperation and be like, I will order five thousand.
  • [7:17] Dan makes some particularly good (and by good, I mean awful) “Dan vs. Phil” noises.
  • [7:38] Dan on the example of a mail order husband pictured on the card:
    D: You need a first class stamp for him. Just sayin’. That’s recorded delivery right there. You need to FedEx this bish. Sorry.
  • [7:54] As far as I’m concerned, “cramf” can be anything we want it to be: A food, a mental activity, an action one person does to another. I think we should all feel free to use our imaginations. 😏
    D: I love a good cramf.
    P: Same.
    D: Only in the mornings.
  • [8:42] Phil thinks all men are randy. Dan and Phil are men. The only natural conclusion is that Dan and Phil are both randy.
    (Prompt: Mail order husbands)
    D: If--if you’re browsing on a website and in the corner of your eye you see “Amazing career for randiest men”--
    P: Like, every man is gonna be like, Yes. Same.
    D: --you’d be like, I’m a randy man. I want an amazing career.
  • [9:13] Phil is living the dream.
    P: I get both of the naked men.
  • [9:20] I’m living for this visual.
    P: I’m gonna wear my pants, gonna put the fedora on, and hang out with my husband.
    D: So you’re gonna open the door, and he’s gonna see ultra-tight pants and a fedora.
    P: Yeah.
    D: Run, Hans. Run.
    P: While it’s still time.
    D: Return to sender while there’s still time.
  • [9:52] Even though they had already used the “ultra-tight swimming pants” guy for the thumbnail, I was still baited into seeing that they used him again as a link to danandphiltour.com. Also, the description of Dan's channel when you hover over the link is "danisnotinspeedos." And I, for one, am disappointed.
  • At long last, Dan and Phil’s merch links are the same in this video description as they were in the description of the last gaming video. But they are both danandphilshop.com rather than their individual merch shops, so I’m still not happy. To make matters worse, I’m just realizing that the order of the social media links is different for Dan and Phil (Instagram is third for Dan and fifth for Phil), and this order difference is consistent for all of the videos I checked. The horror!
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by itasca00 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:04 am

In case anyone is interested, the VIP Edition of Interactive Introverts is now available in all shops again:
"I thought 'ass' is funny 'cause eating ass is a meme, and it's nice and nonexclusive. I don't want to exclude anybody! You know what I mean? Everybody has one. Um..." - Dan Howell, 3/6/2018 - So many questions...

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by ame » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:02 am

lurker wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:53 pm
also i want to make a formal complaint to phil for making me imagine him in tight speedos and a fedora.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by lefthandedism » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:20 am

itasca00 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:04 am
In case anyone is interested, the VIP Edition of Interactive Introverts is now available in all shops again:
Everyone keeps talking about a "regular" edition of the DVD/Blu-ray, but I haven't seen that anywhere--only the danandphilshop VIP and the Amazon VIP. Am I missing something? Will a "regular" edition just appear on December 10? I'd love to see a listing for it so that I can feel confident that it will exist when I want to buy it. Or, if there are really only the VIP versions, then I don't want to miss my chance! :cry:
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Susannah » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:41 am

lefthandedism wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:20 am
Everyone keeps talking about a "regular" edition of the DVD/Blu-ray, but I haven't seen that anywhere--only the danandphilshop VIP and the Amazon VIP. Am I missing something? Will a "regular" edition just appear on December 10? I'd love to see a listing for it so that I can feel confident that it will exist when I want to buy it. Or, if there are really only the VIP versions, then I don't want to miss my chance! :cry:
Presumably it's not listed because it's not available for preorder? They DEFINITELY talked about having a blue VIP version and a red regular version in their mukbang video so I feel confident that it will appear in December. I can't see how they'd only have VIP versions, especially since they're limited edition and sell out super quickly.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Ataraxia25 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:43 am

@ame youre the best
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by bestfriendsclub » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:52 am

Ablissa wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:30 am
bestfriendsclub wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:52 pm
I was enjoying the gaming video until Dan threw a pencil at Phil's eye. Now I'm upset. That was not okay, you should never hurt your friends on purpose. I know they say it's just a joke, but laughing at someone when you hurt them doesn't make the pain go away. And you don't need to be violent to be funny.
Abuse victims are afraid to speak up or defend themselves because the abuser says it wasn't that bad, you're overreacting, can't you take a joke, it's okay for me to hurt you because I love you, you deserved it, etc.
And they think everyone else will say that too. And they're showing any abuse victims in the audience that it is okay to hurt your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if it wasn't that bad, it wasn't nice either. I'm going to speak up every time I see violence going unnoticed because I want everyone I can possibly reach to know that they can speak up too, and they don't need to tolerate it.
I don't want to discredit your opinion or your feelings, if this affected you negatively then that is 100% valid, and I definitely agree about abuse victims. I just... I'm not sure what brought it on?

I mean, it was clearly a joke between two people who are very close. I think that assuming they are condoning abuse (or that Dan is abusive?) based on something like this is a really long shot. As in, extremely long, so long that it's out of realm of possibility.

Everyone has their own impressions of course, but I think that we can't start assuming every little thing is bad. They playfully hit each other etc. in a bunch of videos, it's just their type of humor, they are clearly super comfortable with each other. Everything points to that. There is nothing wrong with joking around as long as they both consent to it, which obviously, they do.
I don't know, I'm worried I'm being offensive or something but honestly, if you are completely serious, I feel like you are being too severe on Dan and Phil.
I didn't mean to imply that this was abuse, I tried to separate the part where I talked about abuse and the part where I talked about this video, I just think it's not okay to throw a pencil at anyone, especially at their eye, because it could hit them in the eye... Am I the only one who thinks that?
I haven't come to the conclusion that it's all consensual and if Phil had a problem with it he would say something. In the video where they reacted to The Slap, Dan consented to being slapped by Phil, but Phil didn't consent to being slapped by Dan but he did it anyway.
The first time I saw Dan hurt Phil, when he was hitting him in the Sonic video which is now deleted, Phil didn't consent to that, the look on his face is burned into my memory. He was scared, it looked like he couldn't believe Dan would actually hurt him. And I couldn't either. He tried to stop him, and Dan didn't stop. This showed Phil that telling Dan not to hurt him won't stop Dan from hurting him, that speaking up doesn't work. That was the last time I ever saw Phil try to stop Dan from hurting him, because it didn't work, and I think that's why he doesn't even try anymore. And because everyone thinks it's okay to hurt your friends as long as its a joke, Phil might not even know that he's allowed to ask him to stop.
I've never seen them have a conversation about boundaries so I'm not reassured that they have. I think, if given the choice, Phil would choose not to be hurt at all.

So again I don't think Dan abused Phil in this video, and I don't think Dan is abusive, but if he did that to me, or anyone else, I wouldn't be okay with it, and I'm not okay with him doing it to Phil, and just in case there's anyone like 11 year old me reading this, I want everyone to know that you don't have to accept people hurting you, ever, under any circumstances, no matter how insignificant it seems.

Because if you believe it's okay for people to hurt you sometimes, anyone can make it seem like it is always one of the times when it's okay. So I believe it's not okay to hurt anyone ever. When I was being abused, they would make the excuses: it was just a joke, I deserved it, it wasn't that bad, and it was okay to hurt me. I would look around and see nobody disagreeing. All I saw was more people explaining it away, whether they were talking about harmless fun or scary violence, all I could find were people reinforcing my abusers excuses, because they say the same thing when it is serious and when it's not. I never saw anyone stand up to it, so I accepted it.

When I saw Dan throw that pencil at Phil, I saw myself in his shoes, and I remembered all the times I had things thrown at me, and I remembered feeling like there was nothing I could do to stop it, both when it wasn't abuse and when it was.

I realize that I'm talking about two different things here, so

TLDR; 1: Don't hurt Phil for fun, it's not fun for Phil
2: if no one is speaking up for you, I will.

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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Susannah » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:04 am

@bestfriendsclub i'm sorry you went through that. i understand you're coming from a very personal perspective here, and i don't mean to discount that, but i think you're projecting somewhat.

dan and phil are both adults who have an equal partnership. i don't think anyone who has seen them interacting in videos can dispute that. i think it's quite bold to say that just because we haven't seen dan and phil have a conversation about hitting and boundaries, doesn't mean they haven't had one. there are many times in the video when you can see phil waving his pencil about, almost in dan's face, even pointing it at dan's face sometimes. also i went back and replayed dan throwing the pencil, and yes, it might have hurt if it hit phil's eye (which it didn't), but i don't believe it was done with the intention to harm phil. it's such a small, light pencil.

the sonic video was eight years ago. what i see when i watch it is playful behaviour taken up to eleven. even dan hitting phil is done in a playful, non-serious way, not designed to really hurt phil. also, there are several times in the video when phil puts his hand on dan's eyes or pushes dan. not to mention all the times he's talking about random things in an attempt to distract dan. this tells me that their relationship is equal. if phil were scared of dan then he would not dare to do such things when dan was clearly already frustrated at the game, since it would make dan frustrated at phil as well. furthermore, there were a lot of jumpcuts in that video. we don't know what happened between them.

i don't hit people when i'm frustrated or lose my temper, but i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for behaviour between friends, either. i also think that they often have a lot of banter and insults (especially when they're being competitive) because that's the nature of their relationship. imo the difference between abuse and what we see between dan and phil is that dan and phil don't say or do things with the intention to really hurt each other.

if something crosses a line or someone is actually hurt (not just startled) because of something the other did, the other immediately apologises. for example, there's a bit in the job simulator video [x] where dan accidentally smacks phil quite hard in the face. phil swears and seems to actually be in pain. dan asks if phil is okay, says he didn't mean to do it, apologises, and phil forgives him (in a tone that shows he would obviously forgive dan). then phil jokes that dan can pay the medical bills, and makes a joke about getting his face replaced with zac efron's face. there's no tension. not to mention the jumpcut between when phil forgives dan and makes the joke. we don't know what happened then. to me, this clip says a lot more about their relationship than a split-second pencil throw does.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by ame » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:51 am

post was getting long so i put a handy-dandy spoiler:
bestfriendsclub wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:52 am
Ablissa wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:30 am
bestfriendsclub wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:52 pm
I was enjoying the gaming video until Dan threw a pencil at Phil's eye. Now I'm upset. That was not okay, you should never hurt your friends on purpose. I know they say it's just a joke, but laughing at someone when you hurt them doesn't make the pain go away. And you don't need to be violent to be funny.
Abuse victims are afraid to speak up or defend themselves because the abuser says it wasn't that bad, you're overreacting, can't you take a joke, it's okay for me to hurt you because I love you, you deserved it, etc.
And they think everyone else will say that too. And they're showing any abuse victims in the audience that it is okay to hurt your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if it wasn't that bad, it wasn't nice either. I'm going to speak up every time I see violence going unnoticed because I want everyone I can possibly reach to know that they can speak up too, and they don't need to tolerate it.
I don't want to discredit your opinion or your feelings, if this affected you negatively then that is 100% valid, and I definitely agree about abuse victims. I just... I'm not sure what brought it on?

I mean, it was clearly a joke between two people who are very close. I think that assuming they are condoning abuse (or that Dan is abusive?) based on something like this is a really long shot. As in, extremely long, so long that it's out of realm of possibility.

Everyone has their own impressions of course, but I think that we can't start assuming every little thing is bad. They playfully hit each other etc. in a bunch of videos, it's just their type of humor, they are clearly super comfortable with each other. Everything points to that. There is nothing wrong with joking around as long as they both consent to it, which obviously, they do.
I don't know, I'm worried I'm being offensive or something but honestly, if you are completely serious, I feel like you are being too severe on Dan and Phil.
I didn't mean to imply that this was abuse, I tried to separate the part where I talked about abuse and the part where I talked about this video, I just think it's not okay to throw a pencil at anyone, especially at their eye, because it could hit them in the eye... Am I the only one who thinks that?
I haven't come to the conclusion that it's all consensual and if Phil had a problem with it he would say something. In the video where they reacted to The Slap, Dan consented to being slapped by Phil, but Phil didn't consent to being slapped by Dan but he did it anyway.
The first time I saw Dan hurt Phil, when he was hitting him in the Sonic video which is now deleted, Phil didn't consent to that, the look on his face is burned into my memory. He was scared, it looked like he couldn't believe Dan would actually hurt him. And I couldn't either. He tried to stop him, and Dan didn't stop. This showed Phil that telling Dan not to hurt him won't stop Dan from hurting him, that speaking up doesn't work. That was the last time I ever saw Phil try to stop Dan from hurting him, because it didn't work, and I think that's why he doesn't even try anymore. And because everyone thinks it's okay to hurt your friends as long as its a joke, Phil might not even know that he's allowed to ask him to stop.
I've never seen them have a conversation about boundaries so I'm not reassured that they have. I think, if given the choice, Phil would choose not to be hurt at all.

So again I don't think Dan abused Phil in this video, and I don't think Dan is abusive, but if he did that to me, or anyone else, I wouldn't be okay with it, and I'm not okay with him doing it to Phil, and just in case there's anyone like 11 year old me reading this, I want everyone to know that you don't have to accept people hurting you, ever, under any circumstances, no matter how insignificant it seems.

Because if you believe it's okay for people to hurt you sometimes, anyone can make it seem like it is always one of the times when it's okay. So I believe it's not okay to hurt anyone ever. When I was being abused, they would make the excuses: it was just a joke, I deserved it, it wasn't that bad, and it was okay to hurt me. I would look around and see nobody disagreeing. All I saw was more people explaining it away, whether they were talking about harmless fun or scary violence, all I could find were people reinforcing my abusers excuses, because they say the same thing when it is serious and when it's not. I never saw anyone stand up to it, so I accepted it.

When I saw Dan throw that pencil at Phil, I saw myself in his shoes, and I remembered all the times I had things thrown at me, and I remembered feeling like there was nothing I could do to stop it, both when it wasn't abuse and when it was.

I realize that I'm talking about two different things here, so

TLDR; 1: Don't hurt Phil for fun, it's not fun for Phil
2: if no one is speaking up for you, I will.
disclaimer: your feelings and experiences are your own and they are valid. i am not going to be discrediting that because you are your own person and i need to respect that. everything i say is for the discussion's sake.

thank you for having the courage to speak up for those who cannot! i think we are clear over the fact that there is no abusive relationship between the two of them and that your message is that "people should not hurt other people (in any form) even as a joke" which is morally right! and i do agree, however you also need to realize that the world is not black and white. while it is deeply frustrating when people blur the lines between what is abuse and what is not, ironically, your words seem to do the same. just as how the people youve described had "explained it away", your statement also dumped both "harmless fun or scary violence" together as something that should be treated the same.

sometimes its unavoidable to project your own self to others when situations seemed similar or relatable, but i do need to remind you that we, as an audience, dont get to see the entire story. also, dan and phil themselves are the ones who filmed and edited everything - so those clips were put there for a reason. who are we to say that they are actually this or that when we dont even know what they are off camera? they are two grown adults who have spent 9 years of their lives together and has shown how comfortable and safe they are with each other over the years. they know their own boundaries between themselves better than we do, no matter how much we may like to theorize and dissect it.

that said, you do have good intentions and i appreciate you being thoughtful for the sake of others, but in some cases, that can do more harm than good. when you put words for someone who never asked you to, that in itself can create distance between the two parties. it is not your fault that people have dismissed your pain, but everyones tolerance and preferences are different. it is not fair to project your own ideology to other people without realizing that everybody is different and acknowledging that what works and doesnt work for you may not necessarily be the same for others. how else are we going to explain people who enjoy bdsm? how about the people who like masochism? unfortunately, we are all guilty of projecting our own pain and trauma to others sometimes, but its good to be aware that people are different from us no matter how similar they may be.

your message is coming from a goodhearted perspective and thats wonderful! on the other hand, i just urge you to be cautious of pushing your own experiences as the same as others. you need to be able to remind yourself that everyone is different and to consider the big picture when making conclusions.
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Re: Dan & Phil Part 78: have the courage to exist.

Post by Ablissa » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:51 am

bestfriendsclub wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:52 am
Ablissa wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:30 am
bestfriendsclub wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:52 pm
I was enjoying the gaming video until Dan threw a pencil at Phil's eye. Now I'm upset. That was not okay, you should never hurt your friends on purpose. I know they say it's just a joke, but laughing at someone when you hurt them doesn't make the pain go away. And you don't need to be violent to be funny.
Abuse victims are afraid to speak up or defend themselves because the abuser says it wasn't that bad, you're overreacting, can't you take a joke, it's okay for me to hurt you because I love you, you deserved it, etc.
And they think everyone else will say that too. And they're showing any abuse victims in the audience that it is okay to hurt your friends and there's nothing you can do about it. Even if it wasn't that bad, it wasn't nice either. I'm going to speak up every time I see violence going unnoticed because I want everyone I can possibly reach to know that they can speak up too, and they don't need to tolerate it.
I don't want to discredit your opinion or your feelings, if this affected you negatively then that is 100% valid, and I definitely agree about abuse victims. I just... I'm not sure what brought it on?

I mean, it was clearly a joke between two people who are very close. I think that assuming they are condoning abuse (or that Dan is abusive?) based on something like this is a really long shot. As in, extremely long, so long that it's out of realm of possibility.

Everyone has their own impressions of course, but I think that we can't start assuming every little thing is bad. They playfully hit each other etc. in a bunch of videos, it's just their type of humor, they are clearly super comfortable with each other. Everything points to that. There is nothing wrong with joking around as long as they both consent to it, which obviously, they do.
I don't know, I'm worried I'm being offensive or something but honestly, if you are completely serious, I feel like you are being too severe on Dan and Phil.
I didn't mean to imply that this was abuse, I tried to separate the part where I talked about abuse and the part where I talked about this video, I just think it's not okay to throw a pencil at anyone, especially at their eye, because it could hit them in the eye... Am I the only one who thinks that?
I haven't come to the conclusion that it's all consensual and if Phil had a problem with it he would say something. In the video where they reacted to The Slap, Dan consented to being slapped by Phil, but Phil didn't consent to being slapped by Dan but he did it anyway.
The first time I saw Dan hurt Phil, when he was hitting him in the Sonic video which is now deleted, Phil didn't consent to that, the look on his face is burned into my memory. He was scared, it looked like he couldn't believe Dan would actually hurt him. And I couldn't either. He tried to stop him, and Dan didn't stop. This showed Phil that telling Dan not to hurt him won't stop Dan from hurting him, that speaking up doesn't work. That was the last time I ever saw Phil try to stop Dan from hurting him, because it didn't work, and I think that's why he doesn't even try anymore. And because everyone thinks it's okay to hurt your friends as long as its a joke, Phil might not even know that he's allowed to ask him to stop.
I've never seen them have a conversation about boundaries so I'm not reassured that they have. I think, if given the choice, Phil would choose not to be hurt at all.

So again I don't think Dan abused Phil in this video, and I don't think Dan is abusive, but if he did that to me, or anyone else, I wouldn't be okay with it, and I'm not okay with him doing it to Phil, and just in case there's anyone like 11 year old me reading this, I want everyone to know that you don't have to accept people hurting you, ever, under any circumstances, no matter how insignificant it seems.

Because if you believe it's okay for people to hurt you sometimes, anyone can make it seem like it is always one of the times when it's okay. So I believe it's not okay to hurt anyone ever. When I was being abused, they would make the excuses: it was just a joke, I deserved it, it wasn't that bad, and it was okay to hurt me. I would look around and see nobody disagreeing. All I saw was more people explaining it away, whether they were talking about harmless fun or scary violence, all I could find were people reinforcing my abusers excuses, because they say the same thing when it is serious and when it's not. I never saw anyone stand up to it, so I accepted it.

When I saw Dan throw that pencil at Phil, I saw myself in his shoes, and I remembered all the times I had things thrown at me, and I remembered feeling like there was nothing I could do to stop it, both when it wasn't abuse and when it was.

I realize that I'm talking about two different things here, so

TLDR; 1: Don't hurt Phil for fun, it's not fun for Phil
2: if no one is speaking up for you, I will.
It's clear you are coming from a very personal place here and I am so sorry that you had to go through that. Your feelings about this are completely valid and I do not mean to say anything else. It's very admirable of you to stand up for others, just in case they are also in a similar situation. Just please, don't burn yourself doing it for people that don't really need it - in this case, Dan and Phil.

Please remember that they are two adults with a relationship of over 9 years. We see literal seconds of their lives, and what we get on video is the edited experience where they are playing things up for fun. We've recently gotten their most honest video to date - the mukbang - and I believe that one clearly highlights a mutual care and affection, not to mention comfort. There is absolutely no abuse here, and we can't assume that Phil somehow got hurt in one video and has since then been afraid to speak up. No, they do speak, a lot. Off camera, in a way that we will never get to see. After 9 years together, I'm sure they have their boundaries sorted out and we don't have to worry about them.
1: Don't hurt Phil for fun, it's not fun for Phil
I am putting this out of spoiler because I just want to say - we can't possibly know that based on a few seconds of video. I would argue and say they mostly have fun making videos together. This playful hitting/throwing things dynamic is shown in many videos, and it is initiated by them both in equal measure.

It can sometimes be harmful to try to stand up for people that don't need or want it. In this case, you are projecting your own experiences on two people that really don't need it. They've been happy together for 9 years and we can be safe in the knowledge that they are 100% comfortable with each other.

I will also say that I do not believe seeing Dan playfully throw something at Phil will condone abuse in young children any more than anything else in the world does, but that is my opinion and it might not be true.

Basically - I feel like @ame said this better than I ever will, so I'll just stop here. I also don't want to hurt you by accidentally phrasing something the wrong way, and I am sorry if I have. Your opinion is your own, as are your impressions. All I am trying to do is assure you that in this case, there is nothing to worry about, and I don't want you to put yourself through the pain of relating this to your own experiences.

I hope you're okay, and if I offend you, please know I really intend no harm with my words and I am sorry.

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