Dan & Phil Part 79: calm down there bub

[apathy]

• [22:47] Phil tries to apply a temporary tattoo to Dan’s arm, but it isn’t wet. This reminds Phil that “one of [Dan’s] only scars” comes from ink from a stamp. (Is this a known story?) Dan then lists his other scars: an escalator scar, an Interactive Introverts leg scar, and a scar from smashing through a window in his house. Phil says his "bum" has never been the same shape since he fell off the stage during TATINOF. Dan confirms that Phil now had a triangular ass, and he thinks it’s a tragedy.

I'm going to pull this timestamp out to highlight the question I asked. From the way Dan and Phil talked about the scar Phil brought up, it sounds like Dan might have talked about it before. Does anyone remember Dan mentioning it in the past?

Pretty sure it was mentioned in one of the "best friend trivia" questions in one of the gaming channel #spon videos - Dan's question was about the scar and Phil got it right.

edit: 4:40 on here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmeZkmtq-lo

[itasca00]

@apathy Thank you so much! This still leaves me wondering why a teacher's stamp was applied to Dan's elbow in the first place, but I guess there are some things that we're just not meant to know.

[liola]

Obviously the liveshow was there to break the bad news, which is really, really unfortunate and I feel for the Mexican fans who wanted to see them, but it also felt a little off? Maybe because they had nothing to talk about after the tbc stuff so they just went on until they hit 30 mins. Either way, despite the tbc sadness they talked about stuff I never would have thought they'd talk about like their first real conversation with each other?? What?? Or the bit about their voices/noise tolerance in social situations. Just quite unexpected.

I think it felt off because they wanted to break the news live and had nothing else to talk about. To make the fact they’ve been waving the tbc dates in front of people’s noses for the last year and then bigged it up a few days ago they needed to throw in a few domestic stories to distract people from being angry. All I saw on my timeline was people talking about the domestic stuff (their first conversation) rather than the bad news they gave. Some of the replies to Dans tweet are full on angry though, and tbh I don’t blame them. I know D&P wouldn’t do anything to upset their fans and they probably did genuinely think it was workable but maybe they should have just said some dates were still work in progress and not really given exact details and definitely shouldn’t have said that it was 99% going ahead 4 days ago!

While the Mexico fans have all rights to be disappointed and angry and sad, because fuck they waited a year just to be crushed right at the end, I think it's a bit unfair to say Dan and Phil shouldn't have said anything. They thought it was locked down, they were gonna announce it the next day, and people have been asking "what about TBC?" For a year. It must've been frustrating for them to keep saying "still t b c" every single time for people to ask them again and again and also get upset that, eh, the answer was still tbc.

I don't blame them for believing their international producer when they tell them "ya it's done, you can announce it tomorrow". And it's not like it couldn't happen anyway, that a venue backtrack even after the date is confirmed. It happens a lot.

So like I said, it sucks for Mexico fans, it truly does and my heart feels for them, I completely understand where they're coming from being upset but we, outside of it, can look at it a bit more rationally.

Besides the bad news, the liveshow was very cute and indeed domestic, though I don't like the idea some people have (General, not here) that it was domestic only because they had to deliver bad news cause like, every joint live shows this year has been the definition of domestic

[Ataraxia25]

I'm very sad for everyone in Mexico and those who was planning on going there I'm also very sad for the boys because they seemed really bummed during the liveshow when they announce it, especially Phil at the end of the announcement. I feel like Dan was trying to make it better joking but Phil was just... sad.

also for the lieveshow, there were a lot of cute moments but idk why this moment in particular did something to my heart,
i just keep picturing Dan going "Geraldine!" just to (fondly) shame Phil because he stepped on someone's slug-wife.

D: I was Googling, like, “Do slugs mate for life?” ‘cause I was like--
P: Why would you Google--?
D: ‘Cause I was like, Did you just kill, like, Terry-the-slug’s wife, and they’ve been slugging around together for four hundred slug years?
P: So he’s just been walking around the flat going, “Geraldine! No!”
D: Yeah, okay. Right, I have been. Uh, turns out that slugs are hermaphrodite, and they can mate asexually, so they never have to, uh--
P: Find a mate.
D: --be romantically involved with another person.
P: So that made me feel better.
D: They can if they want to, so, if a slug finds another person, they can mate with the other slug--
P: Yeah.
D: --but it’s not necessary as they can just, you know, live a perfect asexual existence.

thanks again @itasca00 for your amazing timestamps

[LadyLackless]

Them playing with the idea of having PINOF in December kinda tells me that there'll be no Gamingmas this year...

Can we talk about this here? Because I'm really starting to agree that Gamingmas might not be a thing this year, but...
Is it likely that they would really skip it? As far as my youtube knowledge goes, December is the best when it comes to ad revenue. Gamingmas is very loved, and while individual videos may not get lots of views, they get a lot of money just because of daily vids.
Basically what I'm asking - people smarter than me, is it likely that we're not getting Gamingmas this year?

I'm bummed just thinking about it, it's probably my favorite part of the year (lol sad but true), I hope we will get it, even if less than the whole month.

I think that them not doing gamingmas is probably more a matter of logistics than choice. An international premiere for the show that'll fall right at the start of the money, plus various promotional engagements for it I'm sure (I fully expect them to do something in London) means there might be multiple days that they can't pre-plan for this early out that they won't be available to film or post on.

I don't think there's any way that they'll go without taking advantage of the adsense, I think we'll definitely get more content than normal in December. I just don't know that they're gonna call it gamingmas and commit to people's expectations of a video every day for 24 days in a row and I think that's actually smart of them.

+1 to all of this (also holding out for a promotional event in London... that fans can get tickets for... ). They've carefully ignored a lot of gamingmas questions over the last two liveshows.

Re: Pinof 10: I guess it wouldn't hurt having Pinof (aka their most watched video of the year) fall in the December adsense bracket...

[glitterintheair]

They could do just one week of gamingmas if they can't commit for 24 days like it always happens with Spooky Week.

[Stakhanov]

Did they just do.. two liveshows in a week ? What's happening? I like it. Now they just need to do their separate liveshows and everything is fine and back to the ls situation before the tour

I found it a short but interesting liveshow. My heart goes out to anyone in Mexico and Brazil (because it's not sure they are getting a venue there either for now...) and all places in the world where Dan and Phil didn't go (like my own country).
I do think they tried, but I understand that can't take away the disappointment of waiting for so long and hoping it will be confirmed.

That said I find some of the reactions on twitter very rude and childish. "To be confirmed" by definition means that the show situation was uncertain. People who say "you shouldn't have said anything if you weren't certain" just come across as ignorant to me. You never know these things for certain. That's not how the business works and you shouldn't blame them for your disappointment.

It annoys me a lot when people take their own expectations as a norm Dan and Phil should have met. This reminds me of the video where Dan said he liked food, sex and things going in and out of his mouth and expected a coming out. Then he showed the original video and people just don't want to accept it or get mad at him for breaking the bubble of what they had decided he wanted to say. I think whenever part of the audience acts unreasonable and angry, you can bet they will share less and retreat into safe topics. So imo these rude fans (and ofc Dan and Phil themselves) make us lose out on a more personal and honest Dan and Phil.

Another somewhat awkward part of the liveshow: Phil called us twats ! I wonder if that means for some people Dan and Phil are now 'objectively' sexist since they have used 'objectively' sexist words in their show. Live! In front of thousands of impressionable youths Or maybe here context does count, while it didn't for some when fans came with a communist flag and they took a pic... The indefensible inconsistencies of the easily offended
What made it awkward for me is that you could notice they both tried to 'recover' from it, with Phil saying 'idk what i'm doing' and Dan trying to defend Phil... It was a bit painful, they are obviously aware that some people will be quick to judge them for saying anything that's not sugary sweet or an emoticon.

Pinof in December? Does anyone here feel strongly about when exactly it gets released? Personally I don't really care as long as it doesn't mean the same content spread over a longer period of time. But my impression is that some view it as a tradition it's released in November?

[Stakhanov]

They could do just one week of gamingmas if they can't commit for 24 days like it always happens with Spooky Week.

No! Don't give them excuses I'm already mourning for the deep coma the Dinof channel is in. The gaming channel is the only channel that's sorta, kinda not been dead this last year and gamingmas always brings some of my fave content.
I feel like after taking of parts of october and most of november they ought to be able to make one video a day for a while. Just get an editor or something.
I hope they feel up to the task at least and aren't personally struggling. If that's the case, they should take the time they need. But i'll still miss the content on those dark wintery days

[kavat]

Considering how much they have going on at the beginning of december, I'd be surprised if we got full Gamingmas this year. With pinof10 at the turn of the month, release of the dvd December 10 + a premier in Brazil, I just think they'll be too busy. They might do a week or 12 days of Gamingmas or something, but with the year they've had I wouldn't want them to push themselves even more just because adsense is high. I'd trade a few gaming videos for a Brazil vlog any day.

[liola]

I'd take a day in the life of dnp in Brazil tbh

[Stakhanov]

"A day in the life" I could live giving up one week of gamingmas for. But no more
But I feel the most likely outcome is a couple of insta stories and a short speech of them 'introducing' the show that I think will be very 'presentery' (similar to when they've presented other shows). Don't feel to enthusiastic about that. I'd kinda prefer just a twitter/ home liveshow release party to that. Plus some gamingsmas vids.
I wouldn't be to sure that the Brazil show is coming. As I understood them, they were looking to the BBC for both shows and just have hope that they can get another venue in Brazil. But it's far from sure imo, though I don't doubt they are doing their best. Hopefully they still have some good contacts with venues they considered booking for a traditional show first.

I don't know in the slightest if a PINOF december release would have to do with adsense but if that would be the reason... what does it say that 10 pinofs later the main motivation would be... getting more ad money out of the vids. Would be sort of a sad indictment of where professionalism and economic gain has led them
I just think it's mainly laziness/planning overlaps though

[liola]

Why would it be sad? It's a highly anticipated video that they, and the audience, are emotionally attached to and are gonna make regardless of whether or not it makes more or less money. It doesn't have a set date, it just happened to be in late November for various reasons. If they don't get/feel/want to film it in November and want to doget it in December because it will fill the month with some content and also give them even more money.. Like, I see all pros and no cons here. They are allowed to make money out of their work and if all of us try to save money or make more in our daily life I don't see why they can't and why that has to diminish the value of the video itself

[alittledizzy]

Why would it be sad? It's a highly anticipated video that they, and the audience, are emotionally attached to and are gonna make regardless of whether or not it makes more or less money. It doesn't have a set date, it just happened to be in late November for various reasons. If they don't get/feel/want to film it in November and want to doget it in December because it will fill the month with some content and also give them even more money.. Like, I see all pros and no cons here. They are allowed to make money out of their work and if all of us try to save money or make more in our daily life I don't see why they can't and why that has to diminish the value of the video itself

Strongly agree with this. The only reason to be disappointed that they're monetizing something is if you're someone who tries to pretend Dan and Phil aren't professional adults who do youtube as a career. Something can have emotional resonance and be fun and meaningful while also still being part of their job, it's not mutually exclusive. Them moving it a week makes literally no difference in how sweet and sentimental I find the video content.

[Stakhanov]

That's just how i feel about it.

I would prefer it if Pinof was an expression of their friendship and nothing else. A yearly tribute to celebrate how far their friendship has taken them and a video they sincerely enjoy making. It's their origin story. The magical collab that kicked of their youtube carreer. I feel any extra commercial motivations they would consider (like releasing it a couple of days later to get a more profitable adsense kickback) ... dilutes that idea. It makes it feel less special to me, more like 'just one more video3 that they make.
That's my personal view about it and in realize it's in many ways very logical that a collab video they from the very start made as 'youtubers' would get commercially optimized. But they aren't required to look at it like that. I hope they would cherish it as more than just a 10th chapter of a successful video series and exempting it from the normal "laws of gravity" of the very competitive and commercial youtube environment would be one way they could do that imo.
It's a bit similar to why I think the first (and maybe second) pinof is dear to me. You can see they aren't trained youtube professionals yet and there's a charming spontaneity to it. I feel the pinof series has held on to some of that vibe, and it's tradition of being released in the end of November (adsense be damned) is one aspect of that.

I don't really care about the exact day it gets uploaded, but I do care about the degree in which I think it's an authentic video. To me, more commercialization is at odds with that authenticity. I would take it as a signal of the increasing commodification of their friendship. And that does make it less meaningful, sweet and sentimental to me.

[alittledizzy]

I don't really care about the exact day it gets uploaded, but I do care about the degree in which I think it's an authentic video. To me, more commercialization is at odds with that authenticity. I would take it as a signal of the increasing commodification of their friendship. And that does make it less meaningful, sweet and sentimental to me.

I think this logic is flawed and dangerous. Do you apply it to every career? Are social workers less authentic because they're taking money to care for children? Are firefighters that get paid less authentic in their desire to save lives because they aren't doing it for free? Are charities less authentic in their desire to do good in the world because some of the money they take in has to go to paying employees that otherwise wouldn't be able to work for them and also still afford to live? Do you refuse to buy art if the artist is trying to make a living off of it, do you feel like it's not genuinely art unless they're doing it for free? Or do you think that there's a specific point at which someone is charging that you feel like is the breaking point between genuine or not? .20 cents per view is meaningful and sentimental, .40 cents per view is commodification?

The most likely scenario is that they don't know when the promotional events for the dvd will be and they don't want to commit to a pinof time that ends up being double booked with travel or the events. But even if it were just bumping it a week for adsense that seems like a really arbitrary line to get upset about. If you don't like the idea that they make money off their content, I really hate to inform you of the current state of their bank account.

[glitterintheair]

The discussion about Dan and Phil being paid for doing their job reminds me of those anons on tumblr that get upset every time dnp release something and profit off it. HOW.DARE.THEY.

The most likely scenario is that they don't know when the promotional events for the dvd will be and they don't want to commit to a pinof time that ends up being double booked with travel or the events. But even if it were just bumping it a week for adsense that seems like a really arbitrary line to get upset about. If you don't like the idea that they make money off their content, I really hate to inform you of the current state of their bank account.

Yeah i think that's what's happening here. They have the ii movie coming out with a possible Premiere in another Country, plus who knows if they have other projects scheduled, so it makes sense they don't want confirm the PINOF date yet.
I don't care if PINOF comes out in November, in December or whatever. Yes, they seem to always post in November nowadays but let's not forget that in the past they uploaded PINOF in May, in September and October. There's no reason why they should post in November.

[Stakhanov]

I don't really care about the exact day it gets uploaded, but I do care about the degree in which I think it's an authentic video. To me, more commercialization is at odds with that authenticity. I would take it as a signal of the increasing commodification of their friendship. And that does make it less meaningful, sweet and sentimental to me.

I think this logic is flawed and dangerous. Do you apply it to every career? Are social workers less authentic because they're taking money to care for children? Are firefighters that get paid less authentic in their desire to save lives because they aren't doing it for free? Are charities less authentic in their desire to do good in the world because some of the money they take in has to go to paying employees that otherwise wouldn't be able to work for them and also still afford to live? Do you refuse to buy art if the artist is trying to make a living off of it, do you feel like it's not genuinely art unless they're doing it for free? Or do you think that there's a specific point at which someone is charging that you feel like is the breaking point between genuine or not? .20 cents per view is meaningful and sentimental, .40 cents per view is commodification?

The most likely scenario is that they don't know when the promotional events for the dvd will be and they don't want to commit to a pinof time that ends up being double booked with travel or the events. But even if it were just bumping it a week for adsense that seems like a really arbitrary line to get upset about. If you don't like the idea that they make money off their content, I really hate to inform you of the current state of their bank account.

-No of course I don't apply it to every job or career. I never said anything about their career as a whole, my feeling -which you may share or not but I don't see how it's dangerous- is about one video, Pinof, which I would hope they treat a bit differently as your run of the mill video.

-Now that's a comparison that I don't understand at all. You are talking about they way our economy is organized in general? I don't think the fact that people get paid a wage as a firefighter or nurse or teacher is comparable much with whether Dan or Phil choose to release a video a November or December for more adsense money (if that were to drive them). The way I feel is related to the specific context of pinof, not a general statement of whether we should pay people for their work and how much.
I do think, but this is an entirely different debate about economic systems in general, that paying people salaries to do work is a form of commodification. There's a rich literature in political economy that agrees. It's not as if the current capitalist way of organizing our society is the only possible one and throughout history there has always been a mix of roles we've sometimes remunerated as 'regular' jobs and others we haven't. I'm happy we don't pay judges per verdict, or that I don't have to pay a doctor directly. I would hope that artists' value is not an just exponent of their commercial success. But this is an entirely different argument to what I personally feel about Dan and Phil commercializing PINOF even more by releasing it a couple of later just for extra money. Which I don't think is their motivation but if it were to be, I find it a sad indictment. They have had extremely successful years and are probably more wealthy than I will ever be, no matter how long I work. The reality is that they have a lot more choice than most of us to do as they please without it impacting their direct financial security. In that context and for the other reasons in my post, I hope they exempt PINOF from the commercial reasoning that they of course generally take into account as entertainers.
I'm happy for their commercial success. I'm also not saying commercialization is by definition mutually exclusive with a sense of authenticity of spontaneity. But in this specific set of circumstances, I feel like it is.

We'll have to see what they do and maybe they shed some more light on their plans and motivations the coming month, but I don't see how it would have to be double booked. They could film PINOF this week or the next one and just upload it. They don't have to be at home to do that and Phil did not see to have any qualms about uploading it from the Isle of Man.
But idk their agenda. I hope they don't drag it, because that by itself would be a bit of a sign to me that they aren't really feeling passionate about making it. If you really like to make a certain video, you don't tend to put if off as much as you can.

[alittledizzy]

But idk their agenda. I hope they don't drag it, because that by itself would be a bit of a sign to me that they aren't really feeling passionate about making it. If you really like to make a certain video, you don't tend to put if off as much as you can.

I feel like anyone who suffers from executive dysfunction would disagree with you. It is possible to put off things you like. But actually on topic: you are still ignoring the fact that this seems very schedule related. Would you rather then pre-film pinof by weeks and wait to post just so that it's at the same (seemingly arbitrary to begin with) time that they have posted for the past few years, rather than the usual film and post within a couple of days? Or would you rather them shoehorn it into an already busy week when they don't have time to actually enjoy it, just to say it went up in November? You seem to be putting a really strange amount of emphasis on a matter of few days, and I just don't get it. But as always, we can agree to disagree.

[Stakhanov]

I don't mind as much the date they release it (as mentioned in my previous posts) but i would mind if they stalled the release and filming of pinof for the specific purpose of getting more ad revenue because it gets released closer to the holidays / in december. Again I don't think that's what drives them here but if it were, I'd find it sad.

I'm hoping that find a way to combine the best of all worlds and find a second breath for their channels which I do think suffered from the touring. So i'm hoping for an early filmed and released-when-made but above all amazing pinof. I hope that they can film pinof, confirm a venue in brazil, do a vlog there, get back before the DVD release, do a release stream party and still do as much of a gamingmas as possible. Before they probably go into the winter holidays hibernation.
But we'll see what we'll get

[Ablissa]

Thanks to those that chimed in on the Gamingmas situation. You're right, we probably can't expect a full 24 days, but... Two weeks? Is that too much to hope for? Ugh I just love that time of the year so much.

As for the current subject, youtube is their actual job. Same as all of us have to get up and work every day, so do Dan and Phil. It's literally where their money comes from. So I think that if they find a way to make more money, they totally should. They're not hurting anyone if they delay it by a few days. Last day of November vs the first days of December - hardly matters to me. It doesn't mean they care less about us, or pinof, etc. You can be sentimental about something and still make money off of it.

[sparkle]

Can they upload something today please.

Preferably Dans extended thoughts on Simulation Theory

(Favourite album of the year. I say this with deep love for Trench. I am not biased because I spent £70 on a preorder and it's gorgeous. Algorithm is probably my favourite album open of all time, and Im a MASSIVE fan of how The Black Parade opens. I fucking love Muse okay. Like it's just so good. They have an entire fucking MARCHING BAND on Pressure and I'm feeling it so hard.)

I'm feeling Phil with antibiotics. I hate taking them because they make me feel so nauseous. Side effects are fun!

[knq]

I was missing Dan's more waffly liveshows so I went back to rewatch the most recent one, and I don't recall if I ever fully appreciated the first 15 seconds of Dan being Dan:

"Yeah, that's right: the other one's not here, and look who isn't 27 minutes late."

Phil Lester, the literal other half.

That just struck me as cute and I wanted to share. Also, Dan and Phil both use the number 27 to mean 'many.' It's never 26 or 28 or 41 or 192. It's always 27.

Does anyone have opinions on the possibility of future (solo or joint) liveshows? I was fairly convinced they were dead until this week but now I have hopes for the continuation of joint liveshows, especially after Dan said they had intended to do one right before Phil got sick. Because I'm greedy, my immediate next thought is to whether we'll continue to see the occasional solo liveshow. I miss hearing Dan talk on in his own timeframe, though I wouldn't give up the joint liveshows they've been blessing us with for anything.

I can't say I miss the fandom upsets Dan sometimes triggers when he does talk at least. I'm surprised I haven't seen more upset from Phil's (obviously offhand) comment "don't write Phil smut." As soon as I heard that I went 'oh shit' and I think Dan did a bit too from his expression before they moved swiftly on. I expected full-scale, post-trying-to-live-my-truth-liveshow breakdowns from antiphan/anti-shipping/and just the very literal among us, but the phan tag on tumblr is fully dnp's first Muse conversation and a bit the loss of the Mexico TBC date. Phandom reactions continue to charm and confuse me in equal measures.

I hope they're filming today! I miss them even though they just did a liveshow.

[Stakhanov]

There's just a segment of the fandom that likes to be quickly offended whenever Dan says something they don't agree with. Double standards are being applied by some in the fandom. I can't really see why else Phil can say twats and "please don't write phan smut' while Dan is 'problematic' when he just tries to clarify that he wasn't necessarily celebrating a love to suck dick in his "Trying to live my own truth" vid.
I haven't personally ever seen someone rage against fanfiction, but those who would have a problem with phan fics I'd ask what do you think of the tumblr tag video's and the fact they wrote their own fanfic for their book? Seems like they are ok with people writing whatever about them The real horror as an 'non phan', it would seem to me, is not the fanfic but the conviction of so many people that they are a real couple

Please, I hope the solo shows return. If the joint shows were more relaxed and more like the mukbang vid, I could maybe live without Dan's waffles.. but not really. I love his chattiness and the random topics he brings up in his solo shows. Come back Danny boi

[ratlad]

dnp make money from youtube and that's okay. making money from pinof is also okay, i don't see how it's less genuine just because they *might* post it in early december. they'll film it when they're in the best mood they think is most appropriate for the occasion, and i think that's better than setting an exact date/time every year to film and post pinof. they're not "putting it off"..it isn't a chore for them to do, i'm sure they enjoy making content and they like making money from the content so they can pay their rent and save up for a home.

i would enjoy some sort of gamingmas this year but i don't think they'll do the usually 25(24? fake phannie) days /-: which sucks because this is my first full year consistently interacting with a fandom in real-time instead of lurking for a couple months, then distancing myself from fandom, and just end up being alone with my interests.
it'd be cool to discuss videos every day with y'all for almost an entire month, so i hope there's at least a string of videos in december...

[alittledizzy]

I can't say I miss the fandom upsets Dan sometimes triggers when he does talk at least. I'm surprised I haven't seen more upset from Phil's (obviously offhand) comment "don't write Phil smut." As soon as I heard that I went 'oh shit' and I think Dan did a bit too from his expression before they moved swiftly on. I expected full-scale, post-trying-to-live-my-truth-liveshow breakdowns from antiphan/anti-shipping/and just the very literal among us, but the phan tag on tumblr is fully dnp's first Muse conversation and a bit the loss of the Mexico TBC date. Phandom reactions continue to charm and confuse me in equal measures

I saw some conversation around it, but I think most people were pretty mature and self-aware about it. There's awkwardness when Dan or Phil are directly addressing some aspects of fandom, like smut, but that doesn't mean they disapprove of or are bothered by it. Dan and Phil both seem a really lovely level of aware that what the fandom creates is for the fandom unless it's presented to them, and generally fic writers aren't going around sending their fic to Phil.

The only discomfort is when someone forces them to acknowledge or respond to something in a situation where they have no recourse to just not do that. For the liveshow, it was Dan saying something Phil had no ability to not respond to since it was a live moment. Based on what I saw on tumblr and how calm it was, it seems like the only people who wanted to make a big deal out of it are people (mostly anons) who just like to try and instigate disagreements and it's just always nice when those people fail to get the rise out of everyone that they're hoping for.