Dan & Phil Part 40: We like the cock

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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coffeepenguin
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Re: Sims video

Because other people are still posting about it, why not, and I found it quite interesting as that was the video I laughed most at of all of Deppy's videos, I think. I can't really figure out why, I agree that they were distracted, they didn't seem to have any plan for it, contrary to the most Sims videos of theirs, it was plain silly, but the whole thing being so unscripted, even as heavily edited as it was, did feel for me like hanging out with friends and having fun. So, yay :thumb:
The bubble bath thing and Phil's (kinda uncomfortable) reaction to Dan saying his parents never bought it got me thinking, though, you know how Phil's family is better off and his story from the Confession roulette about a friend who could'nt afford the trip to Portugal? And we know that Phil himself is "stingy", still buys clothes at Topman, has brougth up the price of the firework effect countless times, "Magnum" is still an expensive ice cream, yet he's never said anything about the price of clothes Dan's known to buy. He does talk about Dan's fashion sense sometimes, but I think, for Dan, buying expensive clothes is something of an over-compensation for the sentiment (not saying anything about the validity of it) he's got from his chilhood of not being able to afford things, and Phil is very aware of this sentiment of his and maybe doesn't always know how to handle it. idk, ignore it, I've been watching a lot of oqua's compilations - you're doing god's work, btw, thank you! - and especially after the latest ISG (more on this further down) I have a lot of thoughts, but most of them not even half-formed, sorry

Re: Phil's ls

It was really great - and what everyone else's said: he seemed very happy, I liked the uni talk, especially as someone who did linguistics as my first degree, and the insight to what he gets now from doing his Master's was really great, too, and the shutting down the "missing glasses" talk with "I'ts my life"

Re: ISG 9

Now, for the ISG. I should start by saying that this is my favourite series and I always have the urge to defend it when people express their hate of it. I've rewatched it many, many times, the same amount, I think, as festive DITL and the likes. When you think of the last 2 years, why there was so many of these videos, I see it as completely justified because of TATINOF, it needed a segment and it needed the segment to stay relevant for the channel (and yeah, it's easier to do than other videos when your time is taken by other things). Now, it depends on what you think of TATINOF, was it a worthy project (for me, it 100% was, even if I still hate the fanfiction section and will never be tired of mentioning it).

All that said, I didn't like the ISG 9. For me, it was clear he did it as a back-up, he was in a weird mood, and the parenting rant didn't help. I know, Dan's saying it's a joke, all his life is a joke, whatever. He was in a good mood during his last ls, though. When you look at DINOF for the past year, apart from all the tour/movies/book spon, there are 3 ISGs, 3 stories about being awkward based on real life experience (the collab with Louise about their dinner, the deodorant incident, and the piano teacher one), a seasonal video about exams that everybody hates, a tag video (the diss track) and a baking video. Not very, what's his word of choice lately, original, you would think he's having a bit of a crisis. Dan, however, is always talking about his video ideas and how important it is for him there being a right time. Ok, maybe he's lying? But if you watch the joint ls from November 24th, you see Dan and Phil both discuss Dan's ideas around 43 minutes in, when they are looking at his notes, it seems like too much work to be an elaborate ruse just to make the phandom believe Dan has ideas for future videos.
Now for a bit of projection: as someone who loves their job very much and is proud of its importance, but who is also a horrific procrastinator (I've been writing this post for an hour and a half now, with all the additional rewatches, instead of doing my job), I understand the fear of failure and the negative effect that any kind of pressure could have on you all too well. I don't think Dan needs a "kick in the butt", sometimes thoses can only lead to abandoning your project altogether. I don't think the problem is in Dan over-hyping his videos, it's a part of his job and it could actually put the right kind of pressure on him to do the video he promised to make. I do think that the phandom got what it deserved this time for over-hyping itself and wanting every video to be a coming-out, get over it, it'll never gonna happen. I also think Dan should try and upload more often, even if it's an ISG and just another kind of video every month, at least it'll get the pressure off a bit and people will know to expect an ISG. But the main problem for me is that Dan obviously has something that takes a lot of his time, be it backstage work, or preparing to move, or him having a crisis, and him not talking about it is what creates problems. I understand wanting privacy over his romantic (whatever that entails) and family relationships, but he could talk about work and he could talk about his feelings without calling names. I find Tomska's vlogs very insightful, for example, I don't watch his main channel, I don't necessarily like his sense of humor, but you get to see him being productive and not being productive and you get to understand why he's not when he's not. Yes, I know that Dan'll never make vlogs like that, but he could talk about it more in liveshows so that people understand his process more. Idk, all of it just makes me sad :(
Dan wants to be understood. Phil just wants to make the viewer smile and sell some backpacks (c) fancybum
cherrybomb3
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whilst i am of the opinion that at least part of this is dan's fault and he shouldn't be coddled and protected from any criticism, i really hope that this doesn't inspire any kind of neo-2012 defensive attitude or some regression into no homo howell territory :?
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fancybum
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rizzo wrote: Regardless of whether he told us he had changed his video plan 3 LS's ago (which he did, so for this I give the phandom 10% of the blame), he was still trying to build it up. Was there the noted kink reference in this ISG? I only watched it once, but I didn't catch it. He mentioned working on it a few times and never once tried to temper expectation. It still sounded like a sketch video. He even claimed people were asking for this? Which sure maybe some were, but please. He's not stupid. He knows that we know that ISG is his fall-back. It's him doing the bare minimum, so let's not pretend this is ~for the fans~.
"Well, if you’re talking about kink-shaming, you’ll like my next dinof video"

Maybe his kink is intentionally building people up with excitement... before completely disappointing them. Hot. He's definitely getting shamed for it
mio wrote:Also what is it that's so stressful to him right now? I really wanna know now. Is it buying the house finally? Or some mysterious new projects that will be revealed in summer? Any spculations on what it could be guys??
Maybe their company getting an office means they're professionally expanding in other ways? I wouldn't be surprised if they are sneakily working on another project. Or maybe I would because they really are releasing a lot of videos on DAPG at least and they even said no big surprises this year, so... I literally don't know what they're doing. Watching all of Netflix and playing Zelda is my only short-term guess, and I don't think those are very stressful.
cherrybomb3 wrote:whilst i am of the opinion that at least part of this is dan's fault and he shouldn't be coddled and protected from any criticism, i really hope that this doesn't inspire any kind of neo-2012 defensive attitude or some regression into no homo howell territory :?
What does no homo Howell have to do with people hating ISG? I'm curious to see how he handles it in his liveshow though: by being defensive and weird or just laughing it off?
...
He's going to be defensive and weird.
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000dia000
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cherrybomb3 wrote:whilst i am of the opinion that at least part of this is dan's fault and he shouldn't be coddled and protected from any criticism, i really hope that this doesn't inspire any kind of neo-2012 defensive attitude or some regression into no homo howell territory :?
Dan will bounce back. People will forget by his liveshow, and if they post a cute selfies together then what was the problem??? The phandom are easily distracted, if they're given something, they'll forget. As long as Dan doesn't stew it too long and we get impatient then everyone will be fine. The view count and like ratio on Dan's video hasn't been effective because this has only been a phandom event, not a danisnotonfire event. After sleeping on everything, I kind of realize that we've all been overreacting, including myself. I'm still disappointed but I'm not disheartened. I never expected a coming out video but I really wish for Dan to get his mojo back.

Finally, what gives me a headache about the phandom's reaction, was that Dan obviously didn't think this video was perfect. He deliberately released is and I'm certain he was not happy with it and anticipated a backlash. That he got, and responded to comments negatively, he also attacks those who are thankful, and treats them like scum (that Facebook comment). He always does this and it gets on my nerves sometimes, he never makes a snappy remark to a hate comment, only to reassuring comments of phans who'll get a nasty surprise. I think Dan has made this decision himself, judging by his humour he knew the phandom would have a strong reaction, yet made the call anyway. He has to face up to his own decisions and while the phandom is unpredictable and unruly, I don't think they're at fault here (gasp!) I think Dan should have reason, before putting out a subpar video. That can't be excused.

But it can be forgiven and I hope he doesn't suffer too long with it. I worry for Dan, he isn't cut out for the entertainment industry if these are the fears he has. Imagine him as an actor or a director? I sometimes wonder if he would have struggled immensely if he didn't have Phil pushing him along during the radio and Tatinof. This event isn't an isolated one, so Dan is bound to make this mistake again, no matter how much I wish so. I don't think the kind of regular quality content people wish for is likely at this point, unless Dan takes himself out of whatever he's in. A 2012 reaction has been done in his comments, but I s2g if the unlikely chance it continued out of there, my patience will have been worn thin, and I'm out.
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Birdie
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/ wrote:I also wonder what you guys thought of the "You can interpret that in a bunch of different ways and frankly all of them would be true" comment. (I know some of you touched upon it but I'm still fuzzy). I'm not even trying to read into it too much. I just literally don't understand what he could possibly mean. The only things I can think of that meaning would be
1. he is a boy
2. he has experience
3. he has experience with boys

and something inside of me REALLY doubts that he meant it that way. I'm just wondering if I'm just being a demon phannie or if other people who are a bit calmer and less extra than I am also took it to mean that.
I'm not sure about this either. He must have known he was implying he had experience with boys. I'm absolutely no "demon phannie", I don't even ship phan, but that interpretation came to my mind first and you can't convince me he didn't know he was implying it when he said all interpretations would be true. He's not that naive.

I feel like there are two possibilities here: He's hinting at being attracted to men or he's making one of his famous jokes again and it means nothing. I really hope it's not the second one because to be honest that would be just rude. But I'm absolutely not sure about Dan these days at all so I don't feel like excluding that possibility. I can kind of see people asking him about it and him going: "Oh, you know me, always joking, haha, you shouldn't take anything I say seriously."

Also I got ranting commenting on the newest ISG. I'll put it under a spoiler because it's long and opinionated. Sorry in advance. :?
I don’t get this defensiveness over a soon to be 26 year old man at all to be honest. He did hype the other video up a lot, then postponed it and gave us ISG instead. ISG is nice, I enjoy watching them, but the man only uploads once a month and I feel like as long as his uploading schedule is this irregular we can expect something more than a hastily thrown together ISG. I know, I know, he also has that gaming channel with Phil and that’s hard work too but he’s a full-time youtuber and now the tour is over I don’t see what’s keeping him from delivering what we subscribed for apart from his creative slump or whatever.

To be honest, I hate this. I love the gaming videos a lot and that channel’s doing very well but he’s neglecting his main channel like crazy and I think that’s a shame. I don’t wanna come off as super demanding or anything but what the fuck? Every other Youtuber in his exact position manages to upload more frequently. Some youtubers with actual day jobs manage to upload twice a week so you can’t tell me he’s too busy or whatever. I hate how he’s getting away with all this talk about quality content whilst delivering like 12 videos a year and people are actually defending him. Youtube might be a unique job but it’s still a job and right now he’s not really doing it.

I realise Dan is going through some kind of creative crisis at the moment and that sucks but I hope he manages to figure out what’s wrong soon and get back at making videos more frequently because the way he’s going about his main channel right now, that’s not cutting it. I guess I’m this crabby about this because of his reactions to people complaining yesterday. There was no need for the tone of his tweets at all and I agree that this whole situation is his own fault for hyping up a video like crazy and then postponing it and posting ISG. Dan needs to get a grip and it’s gonna have to happen soon or people are going to lose interest.

Basically what I’m trying to say is: Yeah, creative slumps happen and they suck so much but they’re no excuse to whine for months and not deliver. The only way to beat a creative slump is to stay strong and battle through. Like, writers get creative slumps all the time but if they don’t finish their novels by the time the publisher wants them, the novel is not gonna happen and they won’t see any money. Creative jobs are horrible like that but you can’t just lean back and indulge your creative block and still expect people to throw money at you. It’s actually infuriating to me when people do that, be it writers or youtubers or the creative masterminds (*ahem*) I work with. Creative block happens. Sometimes you’re not sure if what you’re putting out is worthwhile. Self-doubt is basically every creative person’s best friend and I understand that. But damn, Dan needs to rise above it and keep going like other successful artists do because his behaviour lately is appalling.

I’m not asking anyone to agree with me but sometimes I just need to rant and I feel like this site is one of the few phandom spaces where it’s possible without getting attacked. I know, I could just leave and watch other Youtubers but frankly I don’t want to. I love Dan and I love what he can do. That’s the reason I’m this angry about this whole fiasco in the first place. It’s been going on too long. I’ll stop talking now. Sorry.
Edit:

000dia000: I totally agree.
CallMeAyana
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It's sad when the emails on ISG is funnier than Dan's commentary
I think that he genuinely wants to become like a "big brother figure" as a part of his new branding, but... I'm sorry, Dan, but that's not the content that I subscribed for. (So much shade though that I can't even see any ray of sunlight :sideeye: )
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/
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Birdie wrote:
/fɪl lɛstɚ/ wrote:I'm not sure about this either. He must have known he was implying he had experience with boys. I'm absolutely no "demon phannie", I don't even ship phan, but that interpretation came to my mind first and you can't convince me he didn't know he was implying it when he said all interpretations would be true. He's not that naive.

I feel like there are two possibilities here: He's hinting at being attracted to men or he's making one of his famous jokes again and it means nothing. I really hope it's not the second one because to be honest that would be just rude. But I'm absolutely not sure about Dan these days at all so I don't feel like excluding that possibility. I can kind of see people asking him about it and him going: "Oh, you know me, always joking, haha, you shouldn't take anything I say seriously."
Well thank you for the validation! I complete agree that the second option would be very rude. It would basically be making a joke out of people's sexualities and I would go out on a limb and say Dan isn't really the type to make a joke out of other people's freaking identities. (Especially after Shane Dawson publicly accused deppy of queerbaiting. And you can't tell me Dan hasn't seen the video or doesn't know of this. He acts unaware of internet stuff sometimes to avoid drama but I'm almost positive he's aware of everything all the time.)

And regarding your rant under the spoiler, I really agree with you that the lack of main channel content is shitty. I watch a family vlogger where the mom teaches homeschool, has 5 children (one is a newborn), and the father is a lawyer and they upload every. single. day. I know vlogs are a little different but still. When there's kids in the mix that takes a lot of editing. Come on Daniel!! Do your job! If the family from Kansas with 5 kids can do it so can you!!
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Birdie wrote:I feel like there are two possibilities here: He's hinting at being attracted to men or he's making one of his famous jokes again and it means nothing. I really hope it's not the second one because to be honest that would be just rude. But I'm absolutely not sure about Dan these days at all so I don't feel like excluding that possibility. I can kind of see people asking him about it and him going: "Oh, you know me, always joking, haha, you shouldn't take anything I say seriously."
Despite knowing it's true, it catches me off guard that anyone considers the possibility of Dan being straight enough to even consider anything he says legitimate queerbaiting.

But to your second point, I'm positive if anyone asked him point blank about anything he says he'd say not to take it so seriously, he's joking. Because the point of how he goes about all of this seems to be to avoid making any definitive label statements that would be easily quotable by media or draw attention to him as a 'coming out' in typical terms.
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alittledizzy wrote:Despite knowing it's true, it catches me off guard that anyone considers the possibility of Dan being straight enough to even consider anything he says legitimate queerbaiting.
I'm not really considering it either but I can't help myself doubting it sometimes. If Dan was straight (which I personally don't think he is but it's also none of my business) and decided to make such a joke it would be in bad taste but I agree with you and /fɪl lɛstɚ/ that Dan probably wouldn't do that. I'm 95% sure he wouldn't do that but I catch myself doubting him now and then. But yes, I agree with you, if anyone asks him, he'll say it was a joke like he always does, no matter if it really was or wasn't.
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lefthandedism
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Well, this seems like the first phandom meltdown I've experienced in real time. Thinking back over the past nine months, though, certainly a lot of things have happened. I mean, I was here for the BONCAs and the Diss Track, but those were mostly thrilling rides. And there were the TATINOF movies, but let's not revisit that. I guess the difference is watching Dan disappoint his audience then argue with them when they complain, and then the weird protective upsurge in the phandom. I only check in on a small, relatively conservative part of tumblr, and I even saw it there. And it's certainly generated lots of discussion here, including new members joining in.

Anyway, one thing I haven't seen brought up here is the contrast between "Dan's obviously having a terrible week" and "Phil's liveshow was the happiest and best ever". I would take this to indicate that whatever is stressing Dan is not particularly stressing Phil, which would seem to eliminate hypotheses for Dan's stress that would involve their relationship, their businesses, possible moving or other life events, etc. Which just bolsters the idea that this is a manifestation of Dan's creative turmoil.

I'm pulling one bit out from under the spoiler in coffeepenguin's excellent-as-always post:
coffeepenguin wrote: But the main problem for me is that Dan obviously has something that takes a lot of his time, be it backstage work, or preparing to move, or him having a crisis, and him not talking about it is what creates problems. I understand wanting privacy over his romantic (whatever that entails) and family relationships, but he could talk about work and he could talk about his feelings without calling names. I find Tomska's vlogs very insightful, for example, I don't watch his main channel, I don't necessarily like his sense of humor, but you get to see him being productive and not being productive and you get to understand why he's not when he's not. Yes, I know that Dan'll never make vlogs like that, but he could talk about it more in liveshows so that people understand his process more. Idk, all of it just makes me sad :(
I could have written that bolded sentence word for word (I'll be sad when I've watched my backlog of Tomska's vlogs). There are so many differences in how Tom works to how Deppy do. Tom goes to work in an office, he has employees--who are also close friends, he has a girlfriend whom he does not work with but who sometimes hangs out with him and his work mates. Tom surely keeps plenty of his life private, but what he does show is several different threads of his life: they intertwine all the time, but you don't get a sense they are hopelessly entangled. Now if Deppy, together or separately (but what would that mean?!) were to vlog their version of those threads, it would be mostly them in their flat all week . It would probably be pretty boring, or if not, way too invasive.

So yeah, vlogging wouldn't work for Deppy to show their process, but I do agree that it would serve Dan and his audience well if he revealed more of his process and challenges in liveshows. That would probably require him to change his perception of his audience to considering us more mature and thoughtful consumers than he currently seems to, though.
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fancybum said
What does no homo Howell have to do with people hating ISG? I'm curious to see how he handles it in his liveshow though: by being defensive and weird or just laughing it off?
...
dan is far too aware of the goings on in the phandom to not know that the majority of people expected some kind of discussion regarding sexuality, because ofc
so, rather worryingly, this could prompt him to be much less affectionate and innuedo-y around phil, as that has definitely contributed to the belief that he would be coming out or something equally huge
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cherrybomb3 wrote:
fancybum said
What does no homo Howell have to do with people hating ISG? I'm curious to see how he handles it in his liveshow though: by being defensive and weird or just laughing it off?
...
dan is far too aware of the goings on in the phandom to not know that the majority of people expected some kind of discussion regarding sexuality, because ofc
so, rather worryingly, this could prompt him to be much less affectionate and innuedo-y around phil, as that has definitely contributed to the belief that he would be coming out or something equally huge
Yeah the whole theory that "no homo Howell" will return is not one I believe in, but I could see him being less affectionate etc and that concerns me :(
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cherrybomb3 wrote:
fancybum said
What does no homo Howell have to do with people hating ISG? I'm curious to see how he handles it in his liveshow though: by being defensive and weird or just laughing it off?
...
dan is far too aware of the goings on in the phandom to not know that the majority of people expected some kind of discussion regarding sexuality, because ofc
so, rather worryingly, this could prompt him to be much less affectionate and innuedo-y around phil, as that has definitely contributed to the belief that he would be coming out or something equally huge
I really don't think the majority expected any kind of coming out vid. The majority just expected a video that was not ISG because of the way he's been talking about it. He's not going to start acting like Phil has cooties just because a lot of people were mad/disappointed about his video being boring. There's a good amount of people that expect every video he puts out will be a coming out video, that as a concept is not a new thing to him, he's not being scandalized by any such comments, and he's almost 26 years old. 2012 is a long time ago in every way. People overreacted to the video and people are overreacting to the aftermath of the video and Dan's probably escaped into Zelda by now, hopefully equally annoyed with himself as he is with us. But everything is and will be fine, everyone should go drink some water and meditate.
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I feel like I feel really different about Dan (or Phil for that matter, but it's more a topic with Dan) and his content. The words "can't be excused" and "It's your job" when you don't personally like his content (or lack thereof) throw me, because I don't feel like he owes me a thing? Unless I buy something from him (which I don't, except for the Tatinof movies).

It's like this double-edged sword is there with Dan (and Dan & his audience). Dan is hyperaware of himself. His audience is of him. His audience is of itself. He is of his audience being hyperaware of him, AND of itself. Etc etc. And then I sometimes find myself at home cringing because of things I see other's tweet at him, or him to others. And it's interesting. Because let's be real, there is a large divide. We don't really know him, and he doesn't know us. We are very aware of eachother being aware of eachother (I'm sorry, flashback to Friends :facepalm: ) but most of it isn't even real. Because we don't know eachother. We fill in the blanks constantly.
Idk I don't really know if that makes any sense at all. But these phandom 'meltdowns' are fascinating to watch because everything's so completely out of context.
The double-edged sword I guess is the involvement on the other side of that with each other (but also with ourselves lol). That makes this phandom and community so intense and active. It's like a huge massively neurotic beehive we're all in. (I am a very neurotic bee by the way)
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I doubt no homo howell TM will appear again. More defensive Dan? Sure. Maybe less about his private life but about his videos.

To put it lightly, I laughed so hard when I got a notif for ISG. Now, I love those videos, but it's getting a bit old. 9 episodes? Heck, please end this with 10, k, ty Dan. I think he chickened out of his video idea and just put out ISG. I think he does this everytime he chickens out. Which is sad. ISG is great, but not as only video from him for a month. Danny pls. Upload every two weeks and then it might be alright.

Honestly I miss his storytelling. I'd take a sit down video like about Suki the hamster, it doesn't really need to be a sketch.

At least the gaming channel is delivering really well lately.
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fancybum wrote:
cherrybomb3 wrote:
fancybum said
What does no homo Howell have to do with people hating ISG? I'm curious to see how he handles it in his liveshow though: by being defensive and weird or just laughing it off?
...
dan is far too aware of the goings on in the phandom to not know that the majority of people expected some kind of discussion regarding sexuality, because ofc
so, rather worryingly, this could prompt him to be much less affectionate and innuedo-y around phil, as that has definitely contributed to the belief that he would be coming out or something equally huge
I really don't think the majority expected any kind of coming out vid. The majority just expected a video that was not ISG because of the way he's been talking about it. He's not going to start acting like Phil has cooties just because a lot of people were mad/disappointed about his video being boring. There's a good amount of people that expect every video he puts out will be a coming out video, that as a concept is not a new thing to him, he's not being scandalized by any such comments, and he's almost 26 years old. 2012 is a long time ago in every way. People overreacted to the video and people are overreacting to the aftermath of the video and Dan's probably escaped into Zelda by now, hopefully equally annoyed with himself as he is with us. But everything is and will be fine, everyone should go drink some water and meditate.

yeah fair point, the majority in the way i said it probably didn't expect any sort of coming out video as such. but regardless, any declaration of a 'big deal video long time coming wowzer' is obviously going to be seen through the lens of 'dan and phil' by a great deal of dan's audience (which he is fully aware of). so, if he hypothetically is overreacting at this point, there is a possibility that he will think the solution is to be less overt with the innuendos. whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion
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bee wrote:I feel like I feel really different about Dan (or Phil for that matter, but it's more a topic with Dan) and his content. The words "can't be excused" and "It's your job" when you don't personally like his content (or lack thereof) throw me, because I don't feel like he owes me a thing? Unless I buy something from him (which I don't, except for the Tatinof movies).
I think he does owe us something. We are subscribers. We watch his content and the ads that come with that. We like, we comment. We generate hits and ad revenue and traffic. And you know what all that is?? $$$$$$$$$
Maybe I do not pay for his content but I have paid for other things in the past (merch, books, etc.) because I want to support him & Phil. I pay for content when I watch ads, when I like every video he puts out, when I watch and share everything, and when I get other people I know to subscribe and watch.
Without us, Dan would not be what he is today. Youtube is literally his job. If he had a day job I'd be like okay whatever I understand why he does not upload. When they were doing the radio show I could excuse waiting for a new video for like... 3 months because he was providing me with some other content that I knew he was getting paid for. (And me watching that content live every week, listening to ads and songs I don't care about was also a way of 'paying' for his content.)
If you were watching a TV show and they suddenly stopped for about 2 months and then put out another episode, you'd probably be frustrated. I see no difference between that and Dan's videos. Sure, it's a more creator-driven process but still. He is an entertainer.

As a side note, I think he ought to let go of his "I can only put out quality content" complex because I feel it frustrates a lot of people to get one video a month and the obsession with "quality" ends up stressing him out so much that he puts out things that aren't really quality at all. TBH I'd rather have somewhat low-quality videos every week with the occasional really great video than waiting forever for new videos, hyping it up, and then being disappointed when it's not really something I'm crazy about.
The gaming channel, I feel, exemplifies this. They upload so frequently that I don't care if most videos are kind of blah or run-of-the-mill (not to say that most are. there are a few duds but they are mostly entertaining). When the occasional video just cracks me up (like Yasuhati, which I have shown to so many people and rewatched probably 10 times), it's just really great! And they don't build up gaming channel videos or obsess over them. They just make and release them. I've been enjoying the gaming channel more than their main channels for this reason.
I am always on Phil Lester's side
cherrybomb3
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I think he does owe us something. We are subscribers. We watch his content and the ads that come with that. We like, we comment. We generate hits and ad revenue and traffic. And you know what all that is?? $$$$$$$$$
Maybe I do not pay for his content but I have paid for other things in the past (merch, books, etc.) because I want to support him & Phil. I pay for content when I watch ads, when I like every video he puts out, when I watch and share everything, and when I get other people I know to subscribe and watch.
Without us, Dan would not be what he is today. Youtube is literally his job. If he had a day job I'd be like okay whatever I understand why he does not upload. When they were doing the radio show I could excuse waiting for a new video for like... 3 months because he was providing me with some other content that I knew he was getting paid for. (And me watching that content live every week, listening to ads and songs I don't care about was also a way of 'paying' for his content.)
If you were watching a TV show and they suddenly stopped for about 2 months and then put out another episode, you'd probably be frustrated. I see no difference between that and Dan's videos. Sure, it's a more creator-driven process but still. He is an entertainer.

As a side note, I think he ought to let go of his "I can only put out quality content" complex because I feel it frustrates a lot of people to get one video a month and the obsession with "quality" ends up stressing him out so much that he puts out things that aren't.

i think im coming around to this line of thought tbh. the slightly cultish way in which the phandom defends dan and categorically rejects any bit criticism is rather worrying :?
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bee wrote:I feel like I feel really different about Dan (or Phil for that matter, but it's more a topic with Dan) and his content. The words "can't be excused" and "It's your job" when you don't personally like his content (or lack thereof) throw me, because I don't feel like he owes me a thing? Unless I buy something from him (which I don't, except for the Tatinof movies).
I don’t think he owes me personally or that he even owes the phandom anything. But it’s his job, no matter how fancy and creative and glamorous being a Youtuber might seem. This is how he makes money and right now he’s not doing a lot for the money he gets for it. This is an argument many people don’t like and of course it’s okay to disagree about this but I don’t think it’s okay for artists to get snappy when their fans, who basically pay their bills, complain about the lack of content or the content being sub par.

As I’ve said, I understand the impact of a creative block and the crippling self-doubt every artist feels now and again. But what I don’t find okay are his snappy reactions to the fans' disappointment or even their support. He’s not giving his fans much at the moment, let’s be real, and at the same time he’s getting angry at them for being disappointed in that. That’s not cool.

/fɪl lɛstɚ/: Well put! I agree.
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/ wrote: I think he does owe us something. We are subscribers. We watch his content and the ads that come with that. We like, we comment. We generate hits and ad revenue and traffic. And you know what all that is?? $$$$$$$$$
Maybe I do not pay for his content but I have paid for other things in the past (merch, books, etc.) because I want to support him & Phil. I pay for content when I watch ads, when I like every video he puts out, when I watch and share everything, and when I get other people I know to subscribe and watch.
Without us, Dan would not be what he is today. Youtube is literally his job. If he had a day job I'd be like okay whatever I understand why he does not upload. When they were doing the radio show I could excuse waiting for a new video for like... 3 months because he was providing me with some other content that I knew he was getting paid for. (And me watching that content live every week, listening to ads and songs I don't care about was also a way of 'paying' for his content.)
If you were watching a TV show and they suddenly stopped for about 2 months and then put out another episode, you'd probably be frustrated. I see no difference between that and Dan's videos. Sure, it's a more creator-driven process but still. He is an entertainer.
I don't think he exactly owes us anything. What I think is that he has to expect consequences when he does/doesn't do certain things. Not everyone will put up with infrequent uploads or ambiguous videos being replaced by ISG and stuff like that. If he doesn't put out content that people enjoy, they will leave. If he says things that upset people, he might lose dedicated fans.

It's not about owing people anything, it's about remembering that if he doesn't please his fans, he will lose them. That doesn't mean he has to do them. He doesn't have to do anything. But that will eventually show in his career. If he wants to stay relevant, he has to either upload one very good video every month or more videos per month. He has to keep working and can't just half-ass a video every now and then. Even if he's in a creative slump, as sad as it is. Life is unfair and we all have to deal with that.

And I do feel sorry for him in some ways, especially if he's not in a good place right now. But the world doesn't care. And no matter how bad you feel, you have to do something to earn your money. I really hope Dan gets out of this place he's in right now!
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cherrybomb3 wrote: i think im coming around to this line of thought tbh. the slightly cultish way in which the phandom defends dan and categorically rejects any bit criticism is rather worrying :?
On that note, the most cringeworthy stuff that comes out of the phandom IMO is not demon phannie behavior or expecting a coming out video, but instead all these campaigns that are like "be nice to Dan" as soon as he experiences any kind of criticism or harmless ridicule (like after the 2016 memes video). Come on guys, you are a bunch of teenagers protecting a well-off, grown man, who's a popular figure on the internet, from criticism over a goddamn youtube video. He can handle it.

(Dan's reactions to these also always show he finds it embarrassing and it probably also has to do with his wish to be taken seriously as a creator)
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LeftHandedism, thank you for the support! :platonic:
LeftHandedism wrote:Anyway, one thing I haven't seen brought up here is the contrast between "Dan's obviously having a terrible week" and "Phil's liveshow was the happiest and best ever". I would take this to indicate that whatever is stressing Dan is not particularly stressing Phil, which would seem to eliminate hypotheses for Dan's stress that would involve their relationship, their businesses, possible moving or other life events, etc. Which just bolsters the idea that this is a manifestation of Dan's creative turmoil.
- and for this thought, too, I was thinking about it when I was writing my post, but forgot to include it in any way, it is rather interesting (or Phil is just so much better in hiding his stress and switching to a different mode)
bee wrote:I feel like I feel really different about Dan (or Phil for that matter, but it's more a topic with Dan) and his content. The words "can't be excused" and "It's your job" when you don't personally like his content (or lack thereof) throw me, because I don't feel like he owes me a thing? Unless I buy something from him (which I don't, except for the Tatinof movies).

It's like this double-edged sword is there with Dan (and Dan & his audience). Dan is hyperaware of himself. His audience is of him. His audience is of itself. He is of his audience being hyperaware of him, AND of itself. Etc etc. And then I sometimes find myself at home cringing because of things I see other's tweet at him, or him to others. And it's interesting. Because let's be real, there is a large divide. We don't really know him, and he doesn't know us. We are very aware of eachother being aware of eachother (I'm sorry, flashback to Friends :facepalm: ) but most of it isn't even real. Because we don't know eachother. We fill in the blanks constantly.
Idk I don't really know if that makes any sense at all. But these phandom 'meltdowns' are fascinating to watch because everything's so completely out of context.
The double-edged sword I guess is the involvement on the other side of that with each other (but also with ourselves lol). That makes this phandom and community so intense and active. It's like a huge massively neurotic beehive we're all in. (I am a very neurotic bee by the way)
quoting everything because I think this is a very good and important post and I agree with it wholeheartedly (except I am a neurotic penguin)
Dan wants to be understood. Phil just wants to make the viewer smile and sell some backpacks (c) fancybum
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Birdie wrote:As I’ve said, I understand the impact of a creative block and the crippling self-doubt every artist feels now and again. But what I don’t find okay are his snappy reactions to the fans' disappointment or even their support. He’s not giving his fans much at the moment, let’s be real, and at the same time he’s getting angry at them for being disappointed in that. That’s not cool.
^^^^^^^^^ this!!!!
The way he acts toward well-meaning fans is so awful sometimes. Sometimes I honestly feel like he resents his fan base. The fact that most people who watch him are teenage girls really gets under his skin at times. I think that's so ungrateful and absurd. Yeah, sometimes teenage girls can be annoying little shits but they are loyal annoying little shits who watch every video, turn up for every live show, pay to go to events, etc. etc.

Remember, Dan, that the people you tweet back at sassily and who you mock and condescend during live shows are the same people who have made it possible for you to make a job out of Youtube videos, live in a beautiful apartment, buy whatever weird designer clothes you want, and go out for expensive dinners. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
I am always on Phil Lester's side
cherrybomb3
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/ wrote:
Birdie wrote:As I’ve said, I understand the impact of a creative block and the crippling self-doubt every artist feels now and again. But what I don’t find okay are his snappy reactions to the fans' disappointment or even their support. He’s not giving his fans much at the moment, let’s be real, and at the same time he’s getting angry at them for being disappointed in that. That’s not cool.
^^^^^^^^^ this!!!!
The way he acts toward well-meaning fans is so awful sometimes. Sometimes I honestly feel like he resents his fan base. The fact that most people who watch him are teenage girls really gets under his skin at times. I think that's so ungrateful and absurd. Yeah, sometimes teenage girls can be annoying little shits but they are loyal annoying little shits who watch every video, turn up for every live show, pay to go to events, etc. etc.

Remember, Dan, that the people you tweet back at sassily and who you mock and condescend during live shows are the same people who have made it possible for you to make a job out of Youtube videos, live in a beautiful apartment, buy whatever weird designer clothes you want, and go out for expensive dinners. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.


im not sure if id go so far as to say he resents them, but id say there exists an element of wanting to have cake and eat it too. he knows that his audience is overwhelmingly comprised of young, rather impressionable (sorry for the generalisation) teenagers who are part of an internet subculture heavily involved in shipping and 'nerdiness' and suchlike. he knows exactly how to, for want of a better phrase, excite this fandom. but then he turns around and attacks them when they expect more than another isg.
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nephilimcat wrote: I don't think he exactly owes us anything. What I think is that he has to expect consequences when he does/doesn't do certain things. Not everyone will put up with infrequent uploads or ambiguous videos being replaced by ISG and stuff like that. If he doesn't put out content that people enjoy, they will leave. If he says things that upset people, he might lose dedicated fans.

It's not about owing people anything, it's about remembering that if he doesn't please his fans, he will lose them. That doesn't mean he has to do them. He doesn't have to do anything. But that will eventually show in his career. If he wants to stay relevant, he has to either upload one very good video every month or more videos per month. He has to keep working and can't just half-ass a video every now and then. Even if he's in a creative slump, as sad as it is. Life is unfair and we all have to deal with that.

And I do feel sorry for him in some ways, especially if he's not in a good place right now. But the world doesn't care. And no matter how bad you feel, you have to do something to earn your money. I really hope Dan gets out of this place he's in right now!
This is how I feel about it. Not owed or entitled to anything but I also don't think it's unfair for people to be let down by videos they feel lack effort. He doesn't HAVE to do anything he doesn't want to, but if he wants to continue to make a living this way it's just something he'll have to deal with. I feel for him, I really do, but I don't think fans trying to defend him from any and all criticism are doing him any favour.
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